[Salal Sue]

OK, I now have the dried elderberries and vodka. Does anyone know the steps to make the flu medication? This was discussed on another board but after several readings I was unsure if I was to simmer the mixture or just pour the vodka over the berries and let it sit.

What about dosage?

[nanna]

Vodka helps just about anything, I think.

:)


nanna

[goatlady]

Salal Sue, take a quart glass canning jar, add enough dried berries to fill about 1/3 of the jar, fill the jar to the "shoulder" with vodka, screw the lid on, give a quick shake, and put in a dark cabinet for 7-10 days. At the end of the 7-10 days, take another clean quart glass canning jar and strain the liquid into the new jar and throw the berries away. This tincture will be medicinally potent for years in this form kept in a dark, cool place. If you are going to want to start taking it right away, do not strain the berries out, just dump everything into a stainless steel pot or glass pot and bring to a slow simmer on lowish heat. I add about 1/2 cup of sugar to this simmering liquid, but you can add more or less to your taste. Simmer slowly for 10-15 minutes then strain out the berries and save the liquid in a clean jar in the refrigerator as by adding the sugar it will not keep very long on a shelf but in the fridge will be just fine while you take a shot every day. I keep on sugared in the fridge and the rest unsugared in the cabinet for adding sugar later for use as I need it. I also made lots using brandy instead of vodka - it's not so sharp and would be better for children's taste. Same process as with vodka. As far as dosage, I take about 1-2 teaspoons a day but if you already have flu take 1-2 teaspoons 3-4 times a day. Herbal stuff is not like prescription drugs in that each person taking herbals takes what works for their body and situation. It's very hard to overdose on herbals, there are just a few to be careful with but those few are not in common every day usage, and most novices do not even know what they are and would have no call to be using them.

[Arubi]

goatlady,

What kind of brandy? Would you post a link here :) for what you consider a good source for the elderberries?

[goatlady]

Any kind of unflavored brandy and cheap works fine, you're after the alcohol not the "velvet on your tongue" effect. The best place I've found to get really good, herbs and a really good price, no minimum order amount, and free shipping quickly
www.herbalcom.com They also have empty capsules and their cooking spices and teas are excellent in quality and price.

[Arubi]

Thanks gl,

Those prices are great! :)

[Salal Sue]

Thanks Goatlady--I understand it now! Tasted it awhile ago and sure tastes very medicinal! I have a large family and think I'll order more berries, just in case!

[MrO]

Vodka helps just about anything, I think.

:)


nannaLOL... Pursuant to that:

Amazing Uses For Vodka (http://www.quantumbalancing.com/vodka.htm). Of course, most of these uses will brand you a lush if people come within sniffing-distance :)

[goatlady]

SS, that's why I use brandy for the kids stuff - not quite so "medicinal!" You can use more sugar in their's also.

[Herbmountain]

I can see Goatlady and I have different teaching but they vary and are the same at times.

This is the way I was taught.

Take a glass jar, say 32 ounces. Fill the jar 3/4 full of elderberrys. Now top the jar off with vodka. I have always used 80 proof and that is fine. Some like to use Everclear and that is illegal in Ca.

Infusion methods. Barks, berries and root take a little longer to infuse. Leaf and flowers I infuse for 2-3 weeks. Harder matter I infuse for 3-6 weeks and longer depending on the strength I desire.

The first week you have to keep checking the level of the vodka as the berries will absorb the vodka and your level will drop. You need to keep the tincture topped off so no air is allowed in the jar. This air can create bacteria above the vodka line. Shake once a day and keep in a dark cabinet like Goatlady says.

If you want a less alcohol mix and a sweeter taste for the kids.

Drain off the liquid and toss the berries.

Make a double boiler. I use a large dutch oven and add a sieve. I use a 4 to 8 cup glass measureing cup. I note how much is there and simmer down to half the original amount. But first add vegetable glycerine. If you have 4 cups of elderberry liquid, add 4 cups of glycerine. Now you have 8 cups of liquid. On a low heat add the measuring cup to the sieve and cook down to 4 cups of liquid. You have now made a glycerine tincture containing no more than 5% alcohol. This will make the tincture sweet and also reduce the tincture to an extract. You are removing the liquids and leaving a much stronger elderberry medicine. One dropper full, two times a day is good for the immune system.

Or;
To the eldeberry infusion you can also add nettles, echinacea and a little pau de arco. About 1/8th cup of each and then infuse the same as the above recipe. You now have a good combination to cover viruses and bacteria as well as boost the immune system.

[Deemy]

Goatlady, that is how I make it but I don't use vodka just brandy. I wonder how raspberries would work ...

[goatlady]

Herbie, I have a feeling I learned longer ago than you i.e. my way may be an older method. No problems. I was under the impression that bacteria do not/cannot live in alcohol and even with a slight air space there are alcohol fumes in that space. I was also under the impression that one used less dried herbs than fresh as by drying first the medicinal components are already concentrated by the lack of moisture but using fresh herbs/berries you needed a large amount of the product to get basically the same medicinal components, but then I dowse each batch anyway for amounts and timing.

[CanadaSue]

If berries absorb some of the alcohol used, does it make sense to gently squeeze them out into your liquid after the period of infusion is over?

Secondly, any problem with using a falvoured brandy such as cherry brandy - especially for kids?

[goatlady]

I've tried squeezing the elderberries (fresh) not much comes out - it's not so much that the alcohol is absorbed as the alcohol pulls out the medicinal components and suspends it in the alcohol which leads to your 2nd questions re: flavored brandy - the more other flavors already in the alcohol the less room for the medicinal stuff and brandy itself has some flavoring already to add glycerine or sugar to the plain stuff for kid's palates.

[Summerthyme]

Sue- they make herb presses for pressing every last bit of menstruum (the liquid part of any tincture or decoction or whatever) from the herbs. They're pricey- I've been lusting after one for years. Stainless steel, etc....

I had a bunch of stuff to strain this year, and with the price of vodka, I hated to throw money away- and I knew some of the herbs I was tossing were still quite "wet", even though I'd twisted them in a double layer of cheesecloth as hard as I could- and I have very strong hands from farming and milking cows <g>

I got a brainstorm, set my cheese press up inside a deep stainless steel bowl, made a pressing block out of some hardwood (the pressure I wanted would have punched a hole through the usual food-safe plastic pressing plate that works for cheese) and put the herbs in a cheesecloth sack inside the cheese form. Voila! I got an extra PINT of tincture out of a gallon jar's worth of preparation.

It wasn't as nice and neat to do as a special press would have done (they have a neat little spout at the bottom... the cheese press just lets the whey - or tincture- run off the base) but it worked.

Also, I "smush" the berries a bit before pouring the alcohol over them (fresh berries- dry ones there is no way!), because I think it helps them release some of their juices into the menstruum quicker.

Like Herbie says, everyone has a slightly different method, depending on where and when they learned, and often on personal experience.

Summerthyme

[blueridge]

'SAMBUCOL' - elderberry extracts with various additional ingredients that supposedly shorten the duration of the flu illness. There are several different concoctions - we got the "Immune SYstem" formula.

IIRC, "VitaCost.com" has it for about $7 - $8 a bottle (4 oz.).

[Herbmountain]

Goatlady I have studied for about 23 years now and the teachers I studied with have about 30-35 years experience. But what I have found is the teachings vary. Some teachers put their spin on the recipes so we all learn different techniques. And yes, in the first few days the dried material absorbs some of the vodka as the alcohol softens the dried berries and roots. The process then becomes an extraction process. That is why the alcohol needs to be topped off until this absorption ends.

And yes. There are anerobic bacteria that can grow above the vodka line. We just try to take away all chances of that happening.

[goatlady]

Exactly, Herbie, your methods are most probably much more up to date than mine. I'll start topping off my jars for sure. Thanks.

[Herbmountain]

That's OK. I had to learn about 2 years of boring chemistry and learned that many bacteria can grow in really tough conditions. Little buggers have their ways.

But again...I have found methods that vary from the best of the best. I read all the books I can find and really enjoy the older editions. Culppeppers Herbal is fun and trying to figure out the old names and how they apply to the new world names if fun too. My how out language has changed. I always fall on the conservative side. Ya just never know.

[Salal Sue]

Goatlady and Herbmountain you have such "above average" people skills in talking to each other about different methods--you must both be very special women!!

And my elderberries and vodka are doing fine, the vodka is now very dark purple.

[Shadowfane]

http://www.lindsaybks.com/


SOMEWHERE in their catalog is a monograph with the "translations" from VERY old Formularies to today's chemicals.....

Now be careful, and leave a trail of crumbs when you go looking through there or you'll NEVER find your way out.......

[Salal Sue]

Shadowfane--couldn't find it, BUT next time I have some bored teenage boys here that site has enough ideas to keep them busy for the next year. Great site for homeschoolers!

[Annmarie]

This is a great thread, thanks all. I will definitely be trying this!

[blue gecko]

I love reading posts from you folks that have so much knowledge to share! I have a few questions: Would it be of any benefit to use elderberry flowers along with the berries? (sort of a Bach flower remedy addition) I know the flowers contain Rutin a glycoside, are there any cautions recommended for diabetics? Would I gain anything by putting the infused berries into a blender, puree them and then strain? If I were to add things like lemon zest, cinnamon and/or honey to the mixture, would there be any benefit? And would I then have to keep it refrigerated? Raw Elderberries contain an alkaloid destroyed by cooking, does drying remove this alkaloid? In other words would it be better to simmer the berries in the alcohol for a while before tincturing (is tincturing the right word?)?
I have a recipe for elderberry flower tea that calls for lime flowers and chamomile and is said to be "very helpful in the case of flu and chills, if taken hot in bed, for it increases perspiration" (I read somewhere that the berries contain viburnic acid which induces perspiration)...it goes on to say it is helpful as a sleep inducing tea. I know it would not be as beneficial as a tincture but it seems reasonable as a home treatment during illness. Your thoughts? BG

[nanna]

LOL... Pursuant to that:

Amazing Uses For Vodka (http://www.quantumbalancing.com/vodka.htm). Of course, most of these uses will brand you a lush if people come within sniffing-distance :)


Heh, just saw this. Thanks, MrO.

Quantumbalancing.com, huh?

:D


nanna

[yellowsprings]

Summerthyme and Herbmountain,

This is the recipe that I tried. Do you have any comments or suggestions concerning this recipe? Would it really be good in the refrigerator for a year? I really appreciate both of your contributions! :)

---------------------------------------------------------------------
3 cups fresh = 1 cup dried


Elderberry Syrup

Recipe By :Herbs For Health Sept./Oct, 1999,
Glenbrook Farms Herbs
and Such http://www.glenbrookfarm.com/herbs
Serving Size : 16 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : 2 Points Fiber:
4g


Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation
Method
-------- ------------
--------------------------------
6 cups Elderberries -- fresh*
1/3 cup honey
1/2 teaspoon Ginger
1/4 teaspoon Cinnamon
1 tablespoon lime juice
2 cups vodka

Wash the elderberries, mash them, and juice them
through a strainer.

In a quart pan, mix the elderberry juice with the
honey, ginger and
cinnamon.

Cover and simmer for 35 mintues. Remove from the
heat.

Add the lime juice and vodka.

Pour into a bottle, cap and store in the refrigerator
for up to one
year.


Description:
"Take for Colds"
Source:
"Lucinda <healthy-recipes@egroups.com>"
S(Adapted by):
"Mel W"
Yield:
"4 Cups" (approximately)

- - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - -
-

Per serving: 126 Calories (kcal); trace Total Fat; (3%
calories from
fat); trace Protein; 16g Carbohydrate; 0mg
Cholesterol; 4mg Sodium
Food Exchanges: 0 Grain(Starch); 0 Lean Meat; 0
Vegetable; 1/2 Fruit; 0
Fat; 1/2 Other Carbohydrates

Serving Ideas : Dosage: At first signs of flu
symptoms take 4
tablespoons a day. Serving Quantity on this recipe is
an estimate. Depends on how much cooks down, etc.

NOTES : *Or dried elderbereries that have been soaked
in water until
plump
Nutr. Assoc. : 0 0 0 0 0 0

['plain o joe']

Italians just use Sambucca

[goatlady]

BG, the thing is it's hard to grow both flowers AND berries, if you use the flowers you get no berries! It's my understainding the berries have a higher potency of anti-flu ingredients than the flowers. Adding honey or sugar would necessitate refrigerating. I just straight tincture in vodka which keeps on the shelf a loooog time. When I need to use it, then I simmer with sugar as I am going to use it right then anyway. Drying the berries is not cooking them - it's just like drying any herb, low temps, long time, air circulation to remove moisture and concentrate the medicinal ingredients. To my knowledge and experience the elderberry tincture/syrup does not induce sweating which I don't think helps mitigate the flu. The elderberry medicinal properties, once in the body's system actually encapsulated the individual flu virus and prevents it from destroying the host body cell and keeps the virus from replicating and spreading to other cells. It is a treatment for the disease not just a treatment for the symptoms. The Commission E reports out of Germany stated elder flowers are very useful as a treatment for common, FEVERISH colds and as a disphoretic (sweat inducer). The elderberry clinical tests results are coming out of Isreal and clearly show the elderberry is a valid treatment for Influenza A and B. Taken immediately upon discovery of exposure it has been shown to prevent the flu and taken after influenza symptoms manifest it cuts the illness time down to 3-4 days with dramatic lessening of the symptoms during that time. Worth having on hand.

[goatlady]

yellowsprings, the vodka acts as a preservative, but with the other ingredients plus honey refrigeration would be as good thing. Maybe my berries were not as full of juice as the ones you used, but I have a hard time getting a decent amount of juice from mine mashing just doesn't result in much juice for me. Is there a "trick" to that?

[BluDragonfly]

I have a batch of elderberries brewing now. I have a question for you knowledgeable herbal folks here. My hubby is a diabetic and I have been debating about what kind of sweetener to use. I was thinking that using stevia in the tincture might be the ideal solution for this. I have switched him over from Equal and Splenda to Stevia for everything possible and he has adjusted to it. So my question is what do you all think about this?

If I want to use Stevia, could I add the herb to the berries in the tincture from the beginning?
Should I make the tincture first and then add the Stevia?
How will this affect the storage of the finished product... refrigerate or not?
General comments about using Stevia????

TIA, Blu

[blue gecko]

Ok, so I'll save my flowers to make teas for colds and reserve the berries for tincturing. When I make the syrup, the heat destroys the alkaloid so making the syrup is an important step, right? Yellowsprings, your recipe looks intriguing I'm going to give it a try only with tincture instead of juice. My berries are soaking away! Thanks all for the wonderful info. BG

[goatlady]

BluDragonFly, sweetner is not necessary for the elderberry tuncture, it just makes it more palatable especially for children. You can get emnpty gelatin capsules to fill if you hubby doesn't like the taste or just put a spoonful of tincture in a glass of water and drink it down. My feeling is that if you add a sweetner to a tincture you should refrigerate it for safety sake. Plain alcohol tincture with only herb and alcohol is fine on a dark shelf for a long time = and even though stevia is considered an herb, in this case it's considered a sweetner. Is it okay for diabetics to use alcohol?

[gardia]

Since I prefer not deal with the alcohol I just dry the berries and use a teaspoon of dryed berries to brew a tea that can be sweetened with whatever you situation can tolerate. I believe it must work pretty well since neither my hubby or I get colds or flu except very rarely and then they don't last as long as one would expect. I also have ordered the capsules from Puritan's Pride and keep them around.

[yellowsprings]

yellowsprings, the vodka acts as a preservative, but with the other ingredients plus honey refrigeration would be as good thing. Maybe my berries were not as full of juice as the ones you used, but I have a hard time getting a decent amount of juice from mine mashing just doesn't result in much juice for me. Is there a "trick" to that?


I kind of cheated ... :D

This was my first time working with elderberries. I was not getting much juice by pressing them through the strainer. I put them in the food processor and pulverized them! Then I really twisted them as tight as I could in the cheese cloth. (Warning - you will turn purple!) That is the only way I could see to optimize the amount of juice you can get. If anyone has a different way, I sure would love to hear it!

I added extra honey to the recipe as it comes from my own hives. (I really hate to heat it like that because it looses all of it's medicinal properties! :( )
The syrup I made has been in the fridge for over a month. I took it a few times and gave a small jar to my daughter when she came to visit. I think I will start a batch of berries soaking in vodka so I will have that as backup in case the one in the fridge goes belly up.

[yellowsprings]

Since I prefer not deal with the alcohol I just dry the berries and use a teaspoon of dryed berries to brew a tea that can be sweetened with whatever you situation can tolerate.

What a great idea! :tup:

What is your ratio of berries to water?

Thanks! :)

[MaxTheKnife]

I'm sorry I came in on this thread so late. But I have a question for all of you elderberry gurus. Why couldn't you just make elderberry wine instead of buying that expensive vodka? The elderberry wine I've been making lately ends up with about an 18% alcohol level. I guess that's about 36 proof. It's not only medicinal, it's darn good tasting wine! And I have to tell you folks that since I started making and drinking that wine I haven't been sick with a cold or flu. Tinctures are fine if that's all you have the patience for. But why wouldn't the wine work just as well in place of a tincture? I'm sure kids would like this wine. Heck, they'd think they were getting away with something and their acceptance would be way up there in my opinion. Does the fermentation process damage the medicinal properties of the elderberry? Not in my estimation. But what's your experience?

On another note, we have discovered Sambucol as an anti-flu medication. I'm sure it works, but we haven't had to use it since I've been making elderberry wine. I'm interested in what others think of sambucol. Thanks.

[Arubi]

Max,

I ended up ordering Elderberry wine, after much searching I might add, from Three Lakes Winnery in the Northwoods of Wisconsin. It was $16+ a bottle, have tried one, it was pretty good. ;) But, at that price and the alcohol (which can't be used while working) I think I'll stick with the Sambucol which is cold/flu.

But, I do like goatlady's suggestion of dried berries for a tea.

Glad you reminded me about the wine, it's a cold, snowy weekend. I think I'll open another bottle. The winery's say the Elderberry Wine has a short shelf life on quality, that's why they don't bottle much or produce it. I would hate to have it spoil :D :drink:

[goatlady]

Max, I'm sure elderberry wine has medicinal properties, I'm not sure if it would have as much as an elderberry tincture. Don't know if any of the medicinal properties are lost in the fermentation process of becoming alcohol as it's the alcohol used in tincturing that draw out the medicinal propertied from the berries and "suspend" it in the alcohol. As I said, the wine probably has medicinal properties, just don't know how much in comparison to a tincture. Aso the alcohol used in tincturing is preferably 80 proof of higher vodka as that alcohol content is most pure - does not have any other flavor molecules already suspended in the alcohol wo there is lots of room for medicinal properties to be absorbed (if that makes any sense to yor). The wine works for you and yours so stay with it. I would think the tincture would store for a longer time period than the wine seeing as how the wine has sugar in it and the tincture does not.

[goatlady]

Arubi, twasn't me re: tea. It was gardia. I personally am not a tea drinker though I know they have their uses.

[Arubi]

:oops: soo...sorry gardia. Thank you goatlady for the correction.

I really like the herbal teas. One of the recent ones I've tried, licorace (for digestion) really helped thru a bad bout of acid reflux. A sudden severe sore throat with hoarseness last summer, I did not connect with heartburn/acid reflux. Sure have learned alot about it since :D

I can tolerate elderberry now and with moderation, so with the use as a tea seems to be a good thing. :yes:

[Deemy]

I leave my elederberry brandy in the dark for 6 weeks. Interesting how we all do things abit differently.

[goatlady]

That's what I like about herbals, not set in concrete and easily adjustable for each individual's body's needs and how that body works. The very basics of the concoctions remains stable, but personal techniques and/of training certainly come into play with no harm done. Probably a part of why herbals have come down through the centuries as very useful, but certainly a part of why modern medicine has a hard time accepting them - not strict enough guidelines and no control possible at this time though "they" are trying hard on these points nowadays.

[blue gecko]

Last night my son came to me complaining of a headache, stomach ache and was feverish. By midnight he was sick at his stomach and it turns out his girlfriend is just getting over a stomach flue. I went ahead a gave him some of the tincture I just started (it's better than nothing). I am thinking I could speed up the tincturing process by grinding some berries (thought I'd use my coffee grinder) and then adding the alcohol to the meal. I figure the more area exposed the faster it will tincture. Geesh I wish I had started this earlier. Looks like its a chicken soup and elderberry tea day! BG

[fruit loop]

This helps my cough. If you drink enough, you won't care that you're sick :)

HOT BUTTERED RUM
1 cup brown sugar, packed
1 cup white sugar
1 cup butter
2 cups vanilla ice cream
Rum or rum-flavored extract

Melt butter and sugars together till sugar dissolves. Pour 2 cups ice cream into mixing bowl. When sugar mixture is hot and sugars are dissolved, pour the mixture over the ice cream. Beat with a mixer till well blended.

This batter will keep in the fridge for 2 weeks or the freezer for one month.

TO SERVE: Put 1/4 cup of the mixture in a cup, add 1 ounce rum, and fill to the top with hot water. Stir well and serve.

[gardia]

berries to water ratio?
I have a two cup tea pot...I put a teaspoon of berries in it and add boiling water and let it steep.

[rb.]

I came in on this really late, since I've been buying elderberry extract from the health food store for when symptoms arise. I'm wondering about the elderberry wine. My grandmother says that when she was a child in the 1920s in Wales, my great grandmother would give them elderberry wine when they became sick. They weren't drinkers, so I'm wondering if she just dropped some elderberries into a bottle of alcohol and let it sit til needed. Would this work ok? I can't see her making wine, she just wasn't a drinker, nor was her husband.

Comments? I'll see if my grandmother can remember if there were berries in the bottle, but it's doubtful if she'll remember. 82, and Alzheimers, unfortunately.

Forgot to add: my kids get about half a dropper (20 drops) in about half a shot of water. They can drink it quick, and don't mind the taste at all. The like it a heck of a lot better than any OTC meds or chewable Tylenol for kids. Not bitter in a bit of water. Just a slight fruity, watered down taste.

[goatlady]

rb, dropping elderberries into alcohol (usually vodka) and letting them sit till needed is making a tincture. very hard to "drink" tincture so she was probably making the wine. Many older folks did that with particular herbs strictly for medicinal purposes.

[blue gecko]

The coffee grinder worked great and the resulting tincture even just overnight is quite strong. When I added the vodka to the powder it went instantly deep, dark purple and when tasted was quite definitely elderberry. Hubby complained of an achy stomach last night but after taking the 'emergency' tincture (made some of it into syrup) feels fine this morning but still took a couple of teaspoons. Son stayed home from school today but seems to be doing better. The rest of us are taking a dose or two a day and hopefully that will be the end of it. Wish us luck! BG

[rb.]

goatlady, yup, you are right. Talked to my grandmother today and she said Granny made both elderberry and dandelion wine. Puts that question to rest. :D

[blue gecko]

Good news, son's fever broke last night! He feels tons better today but I still kept him home. The school says the kids are dropping like flies from a stomach flu. It seems to be quite contagious but so far everyone in this family is healthy. The 'emergency' tincture seems to be working. BG

[Atishoo]

Salal Sue, take a quart glass canning jar, add enough dried berries to fill about 1/3 of the jar, fill the jar to the "shoulder" with vodka, screw the lid on, give a quick shake, and put in a dark cabinet for 7-10 days. At the end of the 7-10 days, take another clean quart glass canning jar and strain the liquid into the new jar and throw the berries away. This tincture will be medicinally potent for years in this form kept in a dark, cool place.



If you are going to want to start taking it right away, do not strain the berries out, just dump everything into a stainless steel pot or glass pot and bring to a slow simmer on lowish heat. I add about 1/2 cup of sugar to this simmering liquid, but you can add more or less to your taste. Simmer slowly for 10-15 minutes then strain out the berries and save the liquid in a clean jar in the refrigerator as by adding the sugar it will not keep very long on a shelf but in the fridge will be just fine while you take a shot every day. I keep on sugared in the fridge and the rest unsugared in the cabinet for adding sugar later for use as I need it. ices do not even know what they are and would have no call to be using them.



Hi Goatlady.
A bit of help appreciated.
We've picked the berries. So I assume we now dry them in a dry, dark place?
From what you say, we just do the first part (above) if _not_ taking them right away?
so there is no simmering and adding sugar if we don't intend to use for a couple of months?
Many thanks in advance for clarification. You, and many others on this forum are already helping hundreds of people which could soon be tens of thousands

:)
A

[goatlady]

Atishoo, no need to dry your fresh berries - just be SURE you have the Black, dark, dark purple berries! To use fresh just fill the qt jar or whatever size you are using 1/2 full with fresh berries and add the vodka and continue on. Without the sweetner added the elderberry infused alcohol will keep for years, tightly sealed, in a cool dark place. You do not HAVE to add sweetener, that just makes it more palatable to swallow straight - you can add the spoonsful to juice or a glass of water. The sweetener makes it easier for kiddies to take, but again, not really necessaryl You can strain or not at any point after the 7-10 days of soaking - just depends on the time you have to mess with it. I like to have it ready to go so usually strain at 10 days or so.

[Atishoo]

many, many thanks GL.
I'm off to wash em and jar em right after the full stop

A .

[SoccerMom]

Goatlady,

I have my dried berries, and I have a question re: the alcohol.
I have several bottles of vodka in my bar including some flavoured vodka such as vanilla. Will using the vanilla flavoured vodka take away from the medicinal value of the tincture? I am thinking if I use the vanilla, it may taste better?

Also, I have several bottles of 151 proof, clear Brugal Rum on hand. If I was to make a tinture with a 151 would it make a stronger tincture {medicine wise} or not? I have no use for this 151, I have brought it home from our travels down south. Tastes wicked. :P

One more thing. How long will the tincture keep?

Thanks for any help.

[Atishoo]

thanks again Goatlady. :tiphat:
Berries are vodkad and jarred!

Hope we never need em eh.

A

[goatlady]

SM, stop and think - how did the vodka get the vanilla flavor?? soaked vanilla beans in it so There is NO room for elderberry properties to be absorbed. NO FLAVORED ANY KIND OF ALCOHOL FOLKS. Plain, nonflavored, at least 80 proof vodka is what needs to be used to make ANY tincture. It doesn't matter WHAT the alcohol looks like, it's what it has been made from - rum is made from cane, it has a FLAVOR! If the alcohol has even a hint of flavor it will not be able to absorb the medicinal properties of elderberry or any other herb to it's best usage. SoccarMom - I'm NOT yelling at you - many folks have asked this very same question 40 times at least, so I'm just trying to make it very, extremely clear - If you want an elderbery tincture that will most probably get you through a H5N1 pandemic make the tincture with at least 80 proof, nonflavored vodka. Any tincture made with that alcohol as the carrying method of the herbal properties and with nothing else added will last conservatively and be medicinally potent 5-6 years, tightly capped in a dark, cool storage area.

[SoccerMom]

GL,

Sorry I missed previous question on this.

Thank you.

[AlaskaDenise]

Goatlady;

Despite having elderberries ordered, I'm interested in growing my own (red inedible elderberries thrive in my backyard). What are your suggestions for successful propagation of black elderberries?

[goatlady]

I've had the best luck with ordering starts from nurserys/outlets/catalogs nearest my type of climate and growing area. Usually arrive as a bare root, 18' "whip" with barely any roots at all. Dig the typical hole twice as wide as you are planting deep, I put a handful of compost in the bottom of the hole, stick the "rlant" in fill in hole and water well. I go back the next day or so and usually add more dirt as it settles. Elderberry seems to do best with some wind protection, especially from North winds. My last elders got to be about 12-15' talls, but since the stems are real pliable it was not hard to walk the limb down to reaching distance to cut the berry bunches off. They will produce berries on 2nd year stems which are green and pliable until they produce berries, then they get brown and woody and die, so I prune the dead stems every fall. They will send up numerous new shoots fromt he base every srping - this is next year's production stems and you can dig those up and transplant else where to multiply your bushes is you like. In your case AD, I might consider getting rid of the red ones so they won't cross pollinate with the black ones or be sure to plant the black ones at least 20' from the reds.

[AlaskaDenise]

Cross pollination - I never thought about that. I was worried about the birds - not flu, but feeding off the berries. It's taken 2 years for me to kill off nearby red elderberry so my dog and goats couldn't eat them, although small amounts haven't hurt the goats.

Thanks.

[goatlady]

AD, something you might want to try as a "killer" for anything you do not want growing - right after you cut the stems/truck, etc. of growing stuff i.e. elderberry, thistle, etc. spray the cut surface left in the ground with straight vinegar. It seeps to the roots and kills them so the plant does not come back and it does not hurt the soil or insects, etc. I hadn't noticed birds eating my elders, but in W. SD we didn't have many birds to start with, but my chickens didn't eat them from the ground. Goats are pretty resilient though.

[Vere My Sone]

Infusion methods. Barks, berries and root take a little longer to infuse. Leaf and flowers I infuse for 2-3 weeks. Harder matter I infuse for 3-6 weeks and longer depending on the strength I desire.

To the eldeberry infusion you can also add nettles, echinacea and a little pau de arco. About 1/8th cup of each and then infuse the same as the above recipe. You now have a good combination to cover viruses and bacteria as well as boost the immune system.

Herbmountain,
I hadn't realized you could use the leaves, bark and roots of the elderberry. Is this correct? Any advice about how to use these would be appreciated. I only was able to harvest a very few berries. Being able to add to the tincture amount I have would be nice.

Also, can echinacea leaves and roots be used? Or is it just the flowers?
Thanks for any help.

[Haellan]

Goatlady,

Would now (fall) be a bad time to plant these bushes. I am in zone 5 (Northern Illinois). I want to get them started asap.
Also, do they do best in full sun? My property is mainly shaded with an abundance of choke cherry.
Thanks for the vinegar tip.

[goatlady]

VMS, Herbie was talking about GENERAL infusion methods (which is a different method than tincture) for different herbs - NOT elderberry - for elderberry you ONLY use the berries as the leaves. stems, roots tend to be TOXIC. Flowers make a nice tea (which IS an infusion) but the berries tinctured are a specific for flu treatment. E. angustifolia ROOT is the most medicinal as are the other echinacea roots. Flowers are second in potency. You can order dried herbs VERY reasonable at www.herbalcom.com right now a pound of elderberries run $5.30.

Haellan, elderberry whoudl do well where chokecherry grows. MIne only got afternoon sun. The like lots of water and protection from wind.

[StL Bill]

I have 4 pounds of elderberries from herbalcom.com coming.
How many quarts jars will I need to make the whole batch and thus..how many quarts of vodka for the whole 4 pounds...approx.?
Thanks....

[Haellan]

In my first attempt I made 5 pints using:
1 pound of dried elderberries
1/2 gallon of vodka

I also made one pint of the brandy/elderberry but used blackberry brandy. I think I ruined that pint with the flavored brandy. Any way to recoup that one pint?

[Worriestoomuch]

Herbmountain,
I hadn't realized you could use the leaves, bark and roots of the elderberry. Is this correct? Any advice about how to use these would be appreciated. I only was able to harvest a very few berries. Being able to add to the tincture amount I have would be nice.

Also, can echinacea leaves and roots be used? Or is it just the flowers?
Thanks for any help.


There is a story out there of a church group getting very ill by using other parts of the plant. The illness was was caused by cynaide as I recall.

[goatlady]

Haellan, Sure - just enjoy a small glass after dinner or before bedtime! The taste should be excellent! That's about the bet you can do. Any reason particularly you did pints instead of quarts? Just curious - makes no difference just seems like more jars and more work.

[Haellan]

Any reason particularly you did pints instead of quarts?

Goatlady,
The pints were on sale, plus I will give a few to the unbelieving relatives. The next batch will be quarts. I'm now waiting for my order of elderberries to arrive. Tommorow I will be ordering some bushes so I can grow my own. :)

[goatlady]

Be sure you order Sambucus nigra elder plants. or S. canadanesis (ssp nigra) Best medicinals.

[Haellan]

Thank you,
Ordering Sambucus nigra elder plants. They look pretty too.

[MR.G]

""I personally am not a tea drinker though I know they have their uses.""

Name ONE who is useful.

Ahahahahaha

Sorry. I couldn't help myself.

Just wanted to say thanks for the great recipes and ideas.

Questions:

As the membrane / skin of the berry is the reason why it takes so long for the alcohol to "suck" all the goodness out wouldn't it be a good idea to masticate the berries in a blender first. Then the slurry IN the berries wouldn't have to be drawn out through the skin or as the berry filled with alcohol you wouldn't need to squeeze the juice out at the end either.

Is there any reason why this is NOT done?

Also, as I don't drink I have several bottles of rum and a very fine bottle of 100++ yr old Can Club VO whiskey that was given to me DECADES ago as presents that I haven't touched. Is ANY alcohol useful in removing the anti-viral ingredients in the berries or do you folk use wodka / brandy for a particular reason. Does it "digest" the berry ingredients better than other alcohols??

Thanks

[Fleataxi]

Mr. G: As Goatlady said before ONLY clear pure alcohol. Either unflavored 80-proof or better vodka or Everclear. Any flavored/colored alcohol won't work, including gin, since the Juniper berries used to flavor it take up room needed to extract the medicinal alkaloids in the Elderberry.

Masticating berries can speed up process, but making extract only takes 7-10 days without the extra step. Squeezing berries might yield an extra ounce or two of tincture, BUT it's a lot of work, and messy.

Fleataxi

[Just Wondering]

Just a question Goatlady. Usually arrive as a bare root, 18' "whip" with barely any roots at all. Dig the typical hole twice as wide as you are planting deep, I put a handful of compost in the bottom of the hole, stick the "rlant" in fill in hole and water well. I go back the next day or so and usually add more dirt as it settles. Elderberry seems to do best with some wind protection, especially from North winds. My last elders got to be about 12-15' talls, but since the stems are real pliable it was not hard to walk the limb down to reaching distance to cut the berry bunches off. They will produce berries on 2nd year stems which are green and pliable until they produce berries, then they get brown and woody and die, so I prune the dead stems every fall. They will send up numerous new shoots fromt he base every srping - this is next year's production stems and you can dig those up and transplant else where to multiply your bushes is you like. You've got me confused. In this country, the elderberry is a lsited as a tree ... would I be right in assuming that you are basically copicing a tree?

[Floridian]

Goatlady I have studied for about 23 years now and the teachers I studied with have about 30-35 years experience. But what I have found is the teachings vary. Some teachers put their spin on the recipes so we all learn different techniques. And yes, in the first few days the dried material absorbs some of the vodka as the alcohol softens the dried berries and roots. The process then becomes an extraction process. That is why the alcohol needs to be topped off until this absorption ends.

And yes. There are anerobic bacteria that can grow above the vodka line. We just try to take away all chances of that happening.

If the alcohol is over 40%, no life forms will grow in the extract or in the head space. To disinfect in a lab (not only stop the growth, but kill all existing bacteria, fungi and viruses) 70% alcohol is needed.

Having air over the extract can lead to oxidation of the active ingredients, and the alcohol evaporates faster than the water, which weakens the protective effect - topping it off with fresh brandy or vodka is not a bad idea.

If you use dried herbs with a 40+% alcohol (80 proof), things should be fine. If you use wet (fresh) herbs, then a stronger alcohol should be used for the extract.

[goatlady]

StLBill: 12 jars, approximately 10 qts. or a little over of vodka, if you just divide the berries evenly in the jars.

Mr.G: I have a feeling most of the alkaloids are in the skin. It's not a matter of getting "through" the skin, it's a matter of the alcohol molecues have enough free space within themselfs to capture and hold the alkaloids therefore using a "flavored" "colored" alcohol product is defeating you purpose for making herbal tincture as the flavor/color is already captured in the aocohol and there is not mush room left in the molecule for medicinal properties to be captured. Spend the $$ and get some vodka!

JW: Haven't the foggiest what "copicing" means. Here elder is considered a bush even though it can get up to 15' tall but the European elder, S. nigra, in my experience never has a single trunk like a "normal" tree. Mine, after 5-6 years of growth had 20-25 branch "trunks" coming out of the ground, but the berries are only formed on the second year branches and then those branches die and are pruned off in the fall at ground level.

floridian: thanks for the expert's input!

fleataxi: Nice to see you here finally. Thanks for the help. You have learned well. LOL

[sccofer]

so it sounds like a lot of people take the extract as a general "tonic", is anyone aware of studies, etc showing that the elderberry extract work on viruses other than influenza? Should I start taking it during cold season as a preventative? Have two small children who just started school and they seem to bring something new home every week that makes me sick!

[Shannon]

I don't know how efficient they would be against a cold virus as they do not have the hemmaglutin that the elderberry disablesHowever, they do boost a persons immune system to a degree. That would help lessen the effects of most bugs going around.

[goatlady]

Only studies I know of show a positive effect against Influenza A and B.

[AlaskaDenise]

JW: Haven't the foggiest what "copicing" means. ..... Mine, after 5-6 years of growth had 20-25 branch "trunks" coming out of the ground,

coppicing is cutting off the main trunk of a bush/tree to stimulte the growth of it's "branch trunks" - referred to as "whips" when replanted/sold. This is used in the creation of willow plantations for energy biomass. The mother trees/bushes are coppiced and the resultant "whips" are planted - over 6000 per acre. etc. etc. ..... google it - 'tis interesting. Similar system for hybrid poplar plantations - to provide wood pulp/chips etc. for various markets. Very common, very old - just unfamiliar or modernized terminology.

Would be interesting to see if elderberry planted in wetlands would reduce AI in migratory birds. :D :D :D

[goatlady]

That was 1 thing I did notice in SD - the birds did not seem attracted to the elders and even my chickens did not eat the fallen berries. Strange things abound. It may have been due to my elders being very close to the house, but I don't know that for sure. My friend across the state says the birds abound on the elders at the back of her Dad's property.

[Just Wondering]

The birds here, of all breeds pig out on elders.

[Just Wondering]

JW: Haven't the foggiest what "copicing" means. Here elder is considered a bush even though it can get up to 15' tall but the European elder, S. nigra, in my experience never has a single trunk like a "normal" tree. Mine, after 5-6 years of growth had 20-25 branch "trunks" coming out of the ground, but the berries are only formed on the second year branches and then those branches die and are pruned off in the fall at ground level.

Oh okay. No here, they are proper trees. Coppicing is where you deliberately keep a tree sort of "bushed".

They used to do it with hazel nuts, not just to keep the nuts lower, but because hazelnut branches were used as "staples" when thatching.

[AnotherChris]

I ordered some Vegetable Glycerine for my batch of syrup. Today it arrived and oddly enough there was a .33 oz bottle of Sambucol in the box too.

Weird? :beer:

[AlaskaDenise]

The birds here, of all breeds pig out on elders.

Would be interesting to see if they had a low viral load of all AIs.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

I received my pound of elderberries from herbalcom.com in the mail today. Are they supposed to stink?

Because these things stink to high hell.

[goatlady]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Yes, you got the right stuff JOS. Everybody complains of the smell. Not to worry, it does not come through in the tincture process. Those are good, freshly dried, potent berries. One guy's wife on another forum made him leave them out on the porch, forbidden in the house.

[Wolfscout]

thanks for this thread and everyone's input while i get self up to speed.

[Atishoo]

jar, fill the jar to the "shoulder" with vodka, screw the lid on, give a quick shake, and put in a dark cabinet for 7-10 days. At the end of the 7-10 days, take another clean quart glass canning jar and strain the liquid into the new jar and throw the berries away. This tincture will be medicinally potent for years in this form kept in a dark, cool place. If you are going to want to start taking it right away, do not strain the berries out, just dump everything into a stainless steel pot .

Thanks. Done!

A

[buddy]

Can someone give me info. where to buy elderberries online in Canada?

Thx in advance!

[eShirl]

OK, maybe this is a dumb question, but what about just using the elderberries intact, like in a big batch of oatmeal cookies instead of raisins? Or does it need to be extracted in order to be effective?

[Shannon]

There is speculation that heating the berries destroys or partially destroys the efficacy. The jury is still out on heating (or baking).

[goatlady]

eShirl, tincture is usuallu made with dried elderberries and they are hard as rocks and do NOT soften up much at all with soaking. You would most probably have to eat several pounds of fresh elderberries several times a day to get the same effective dose of the tincture - just like having to eat pounds of whatever veggies to get a therapeutic dose of the vitamin. The alcohol extracts the concentrated medicinal properties from the dried elderberries.

[burnsai]

Anyone give me a good place to buy the elderberries off line? I jist spent a bunch of money on elderberrie pills ,sambucol,propolis pills I have no idea what im doing :) Ill get what I need and figure it out as I go along.

[Arubi]

burnsai, try

http://www.curevents.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=30&f=46

or;

[Arubi]

and;

http://www.curevents.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17452&highlight=buying+elderberries

and;


http://www.curevents.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22386&highlight=buying+elderberries

our search engine is excellent ;)

[Blackrock]

my dried elderberries arrived - do I need to make the tincture right away - or can they store for awhile? if so - how best to store?

[Arubi]

BR,

see my prior links :)

[BirdGuano]

my dried elderberries arrived - do I need to make the tincture right away - or can they store for awhile? if so - how best to store?

I stored my extras in the freezer.

[LizB]

I stored them in a airtight tupperware-like container. It must be airtight, I can't smell them through the box. :)

[Jonesie]

I'm going to take half the berries, make extract out of them.
The other half I'm going to stuff in my pockets and wear around my neck.
That will keep everyone from getting within sneezing distance.

[goatlady]

Good one, Jonsie! Works with garlic and vampires.

[goatlady]

Folks, on my post #3 the correct dosages should be 1-2 TEASPOONS for beginning maintanence dosage and 1-2 TABLESPOONS for known exposure treatment.

[nadiaa]

Any way to make a tincture without any alcohol. I realize I can buy an herbal tea, but I imagine a tincture is much more effective. Have a family member who absolutely can't take any alcohol. Thanks. Nadia

[goatlady]

nadiaa, go to the Herbarium forum, subforum of the Laboratory. There are good posts there on nonalcoholic elderberry syrup.

[Therese]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Yes, you got the right stuff JOS. Everybody complains of the smell. Not to worry, it does not come through in the tincture process. Those are good, freshly dried, potent berries. One guy's wife on another forum made him leave them out on the porch, forbidden in the house.

Wait a minute! They're supposed to stink? ! :eek:

I bought some from a more local source, and while, when the bag is open, there is a fairly strong smell, they don't "stink" like is being described here . . . The smell is not unpleasant at all, in fact, it smells like berries and I like it. My kids think it doesn't smell very good, but I don't . . and it certainly doesn't force one to put them outside; they can hardly be smelled at all while the bag is zipped closed (comes in a heavy zip-lock type bag).

Does this mean they aren't potent enough or something else or nothing at all?




.

[goatlady]

Nothing at all, Therese - everybody's "sniffer" works differently. Many "ladies" seem to be extremely sensitive types to strong smells! They usually are the ladies that don't sweat in the summer either. LOL

[dreamseeer]

STINK is in the nose of the beholder. :lol: :lol:

Sorry.....I just couldn't resist it. :)

[Therese]

Lol


.

[Renia]

Question for Herbmountain (or whoever can answer...)
Going back to anerobic bacteria in elderberry tincture: so after you strain it, the bacteria won't grow in the jar any more? Let's say that I pour some off in a small bottle for immediate use and the jar isn't full any more. Will it be safe just sitting on a shelf? Sorry if it is a dumb question but I am completely new to this...

[goatlady]

Renia, that's what I do all the time with my tinctures and have never had any problems with anything "growing" in any of my tinctures. I THINK after you have strained out the herbs used to make the tincture everything is copacetic!

[Foo]

Does anyone know where to buy elderberries in the Netherlands?

(The vodka I think I can find easily. :D )

[Caonacl]

hear we go again...

[Renia]

Thanks Goatlady. I have just ordered a book by James Greens. I'm hoping to find many answers to my questions there!

[goatlady]

He's really into using herbs as part of the diet, as in foods and food preps not so much on traditional preps. I just ran across a great "sounding" book that I just ordered myself - HERBS FOR DUMMYS! by the folks that put out all those other great "For Dummys" books and it's based on Christopher Hobbs writings who is an excellent herbalist of the traditional tradition. Hfate to tell you, but there will ALWAYS be questions LOL, forever as herbs are so interesting and versatile.

[Renia]

...and that's why we have you and all those other great herbalists with hands - on knowledge in the forum!!! And we'll keep bugging you... Thanks for all your help!