[Ought Six]

I often see the topic of how to rebuild an industrial society after a collapse come up on survival boards. I am currently reading a book called The Aftermath; A Novel of Survival (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312311125/qid=1102419114/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-1523923-4708749?v=glance&s=books), by Samuel C. Florman. It covers precisely that topic, and is written by an engineer who has a thorough knowlege of the history of human technology. I highly recommend it. It is well worth the read.

[A.T.Hagan]

Eleven reviews on Amazon so far and only two of them good. Still, it sounds interesting so maybe I'll order a used copy and see what it's about.

.....Alan.

[goatlady]

Is it "readable?" My eyes have a tendency to glaze over if bombarded with lots of dry facts and technical stuff. I do much better with the techniques woven into a good story line. Alan, just get your library to get a copy for you and save the $$ until you read it.

[Shadowfane]

Bruce Beach's CD is a good place to start on the technologies you are going to want to be able to generate....

[SmartAZ]

http://www.darkage.fsnet.co.uk/ offers a history of every dominant culture on the planet. The book is 350 pages, but it's divided so it's fairly easy to read.

All cultures go through the same cycle of rise and fall. Traditions vary, and details vary, but they all fall in the same general pattern and for the same reason: human nature. Societies are not rebuilt, they are abandoned, forgotten, and then rediscovered or reinvented.

Some technologies might be preserved, and some are lost forever. For instance, Roman, Greek, and other legends indicate that people used to do things with water that have never been duplicated, such as changeing the courses of rivers on short notice. And many stone buildings still stand with no clue about how the stones were prepared, moved, or fitted together.

[Ought Six]

gl:"Is it "readable?""Yes, it is good post-apocalypse fiction. I enjoyed it.

[north runner]

Island In the Sea of Time and Dies the Fire by S.M. Stirling sound better but I'll give it a try. I can't imagine going back to a hi-tech life after a killer asteroid or yellowstone disaster. It would be survival and forget the frills like a high school diploma. Knowledge would be passed down thru families and kept secret. Different rules would apply.

[Kimber]

If any of you are looking for a true classic, may I suggest "Earth Abides" by George Stewart. It's a sci-fi book from 1949. He beat Stephen King's The Stand by a generation.

A quick virus die-off leaves a few stragglers "rebuilding." After the collapse, there is no Stephen King otherworldliness. Rather, a guy finds a girl, has kids, they meet others, form a community among the decaying infrastructure. Incredibly good. In fact, since my 1972 copy is dog eared and mangled, I ordered another one while posting.

Lucifer's Hammer was good, but this one is great because of the thought processes of the main character. I can't go into details, and I was going to steal some reviews from Amazon. I decided not to. My advice, if you haven't read it, don't read the Amazon reviews (4.5 stars with 181 reviews) . . . just buy it!

I already told you more of the plot than I knew when I first read it. It hasn't stopped me from reading about 8-10 more times. If you buy it and don't like it, I will pay for a free dinner at Outback if you're ever in town.

You might want to read the first review. As she/he noted, there are racial stereotypes and other 1949-era issues. However, if you can put that aside, it's a great book. (Bonus item: If you fear the release of a bio-engineered weapon, it happens, and you survive - this is your cup of tea.)

Here's the link:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0449213013/qid=1102719507/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/002-3532095-6356030

[Kimber]

O6,

I'm not sure if you wanted "how to" books or "good reads."

I'd have mentioned Foxfire, etc. were this a nonfiction thread. I assumed it was a general "collapse and how to deal" book thread and I posted a good scenario book.

In a few months, the thread title will likely be unhelpful, as there are books all over the place. So, may I suggest you narrow the focus of the thread title so we can later figure out which books are on this thread?

David

[Ought Six]

K:

I do not mind a wide range of recommendations or discussion. My only goal was to point out a good book that I read. Beyond that, the thread can and will go where it will.

================================================================

The interesting thing about this book is that it involves a group of engineers as survivors. They knew the history of the evolution of human technology, but were not interested in repeating every step. They went straight to what was most useful and necessary technologies first, skipping over any intermediate steps they could. The had few tools, but ended up in area that is rich in natural resources. Their goal was to reestablish a technological society as rapidly as possible. I think the scenario in the book was overly optomistic, but it still provided a great look at what people should focus on in rebuilding a technological society.

[goatlady]

I've read Earth Abides twice and did not like it either time. To me the mian character was too wishy-washy - actually he reminded me a a sheeple who was thrust into a position he could not handle so he didnt. Maybe because it was so nonproductive was why I didn't like it. JMO. Stirling's Island trilogy I thought was excellent with good workable ideas on rebuilding, corking together as a community, and getting things done because they had to be done THEN. Good examples of excellent managerial skills, as well as skills and knowledge throughout resulting in lifesaving results.

[Kimber]

Goatlady,

I still loved it. I was a sheeple when I first read it. Of course, I was about 14. :D I still recommend it. However, for you, if you're ever in the DC area PM me. I'll spring for a Blooming Onion.

David

[Disaster Cat]

I first read Earth Abides when I was 12 years old and if has affected me for the rest of my life. I saw some of the last part of the book "come to life" one firery day in Oakland (when I too looked back from the edge of the bridge) Hint *Read the Book...you'll know what I'm talking about. Sure, its dated and its gots some problems. It was the one of the first of its kind. But to me it was very powerful. I re-read it every few years...
Disaster Cat/Melodi

['plain o joe']

We watched "The Postman" last nite..... with Kevin Costner...

[sparkky]

I am of the opinion that rebuilding social order will be an issue first, and will not be an easy one.
Americans are not used to doing without and that will be a powerful thing to overcome.
Industrialzation may have to take a back seat to civilization for awhile.

[north runner]

I don't see the same people at the heart of the social collapse rebuilding civilization. They might live in the ruins for awhile and pass on some knowledge but thats about it. One only has to consider the nursery rhyme Humpty Dumpty....and all the king's men and horses couldn't put him back together again. Ahoy...dark ages ahead.

Laws of Eight

1. You will obey orders without question.

2. Punishment shall be swift.

3. Mercy is for the weak.

4. Terror will defeat reason.

5. Your alligeance is to the clan.

6. Justice can be dictated.

7. Any clansman may challenge for leadership of the clan.

8. There is only one penalty - death.

[SmartAZ]

What happens in a collapse is that cooperation ends. For whatever reason, members have to preserve their own families against attack or natural calamities. They forget their heritage, their nation, and even their language. Some small groups might try to preserve knowledge, and some small groups might even continue to use technology, if they can get supplies.

Eventually a leader arises who is able to attract the families and tribes into joining a cooperative group to assure preservation and share work. This is the start of rebuilding, but the stored knowledge has to be rediscovered. It might take a while to figure out how to read it and what it's talking about. After that, there will be new discoveries about basic things, and the accomplishments of that era will make our era look stupid.

If you want to preserve some knowledge through this period, your best bet probably is to build a monastery for the purpose.

[Shadowfane]

If you want to preserve some knowledge through this period, your best bet probably is to build a monastery for the purpose.

That or a small university next to a rural nuke power plant.....like Perry, Davis Besse, or the other one on western Lake Erie in Southern Michigan

[Libertarian]

A Canticle for Liebowitz comes to mind.

[north runner]

Think I'll make a list of things I won't be doing after the collapse:

1. rebuilding society
2. monastery or church construction
3. getting married/divorced
4. voting for lying sobs
5. paying obscene taxes
6. worrying about govt inflation
7. paying lawyers & insurance companies

Gee I'm beginnng to feel better already, maybe the new dark ages won't be so bad afterall.

[driveshesaid]

Aaaaahhhhh, Lib! You beat me to it!

It doesn't give you suggestions for rebuilding, but "Canticle for Lebowitz" does put forth a very plausible idea on what could happen.

And for those who like to ponder what if/could that have happened in the past? ideas, it's very fertile ground.

Okay, that last sentence was really murky, but if I say anymore, I'll give the book's plot away. :eek:

Good book


drive