[Hamilton Felix]

I thought it would be fun to start a thread on "UNcamo," that is, camouflage that doesn't look like non-PC paramiliary camouflage.

The function of camouflage is really to break up distinctive shapes and outlines, thus helping you blend in. As wonderful as some of the new RealTree and TreeBark camo is, it's not really necessary to look exactly like a tree or bush. You only need NOT look like a person -- same goes for your vehicle NOT looking like a vehicle when it's in the field.

I liked this shirt. I have others that seem to help blend into the woods without being perceived as "camouflage." I think the repetitive bird dog pattern may be a little to regular. What we really want is something asymetrical.

[timbo]

Interesting HF. Cooper's Corner(Jeff Cooper) in Guns and Ammo magazine this month wrote to camo.

Talking about patterns in military camo. His thoughts on it are if you are close enough to discern the pattern of his shirt, it is his outline rather than the pattern that matters.

He went on to write about his involvement in the Rhodesian war and the experiments they ran on camo.

He said its the back of the hands and the black line of his firearm that is most noticable. So he says to blacken the back of the hands with shoe polish or mud and breaking up the weapon with irregular bands of masking tape.

And oddly enough he relates the face did not stand out anywhere as prominently as the hands.

He thinks the smearing on of "stuff" on your face is more theatrical than effective.


Now my thoughts: I wonder if it would be possible to "create a breaking up" of the human pattern with something dimensional say coming out from you upper arm area? Say artificial branches (6" or so)?

The Japanese I have read were excellent camo experts for their snipers. They would place an amount of small branches that would fan out around their upper body area. I remember one pic where they tied grasses around their waist at the back and were higher than their head. Plus of course the foliage they would put on their helmet as well.

Just some thoughts.

[Hamilton Felix]

That's what a ghillie suit does, breaks up the distinctive shape. And when you look at some vehicle camo, it's a pretty big pattern, but designed to break up the straight lines and 90 degree corners (always a giveaway when you're looking for signs of humans in the woods).

Would a fringed leather jacket disguise the shape of the forearms?

[timbo]

I've seen pics of ghillies but never one live,but they look so awkward other than for complete stealth and slow moving.

Fringe would help some. I was looking at your pic again HF and noticed that the breaking of the figures at the edge of the arm helped to get rid of the distinctive outline of the arm...maybe a strong contrasting lighter color.
The main part of the shirt should be dark to give the impression of shadow which to me would be good and the lighter spots being to the outside of the sleeves and to go further the pant legs as well.

For a weapon,I remember some movie (cowboys and indians?) in the dim past that the indians had fringe buckskin sleeves on the area from the ejector to the foregrip. And of course the rifle being dark and the buckskin light it totally broke up the outline of the gun. That was probably theatrical but it has merits.

[ssbn sailor]

I've seen pics of ghillies but never one live,but they look so awkward other than for complete stealth and slow moving.


Timbo:

Take a normal USAF flight suit obtained from any Army surplus store. Sew any type of brown or green colored fabric with a mesh pattern to the back amd sides of it.

Loop green, brown, and black strands of small twine through the mesh to create any pattern you want. make sure the pattern doesnt break into sharp angles.

For a headcovering, use a balaclava, tie knots on the twine, and run the ends from the inside of the cap up through the fabric so it camoflauges your head.

Paint your face black, or any color you want.

Thats all they are. I used to make my own. Those are light, easily changeable for the season or the environment, and hard as heck to see. :beer:

[SageTheRage]

I have a guille suit (well one that is mostly done that is). I work on it as I have time; will post a picture soon. I find it relaxing to work on and call it "redneck" quilting! :D

[timbo]

Heck Sailor you make that sound easy!

Ive seen prices for them in some catalogs that dilates me pupils they want so much for them. And they also look like you're carrying about 15 extra pounds with them.

Sage I might have to start "knitting" me one this winter.

[SageTheRage]

Here's a tip, Timbo, if you do decide to start "knitting" or as I call it "quilting" yourself a nifty ghille suit.

I used a floor lamp (shade intact) as my "dummy". That way I could keep the shape as I worked - especially on the hat (top) part. Plus with the lamp being so tall, I could easily sit on the couch at a much lower level and have the longer pieces of the netting (for the shoulders/body part of the ghille suit) hanging down. Much easier to work with than "across your lap".

And as an aside: if ya really wanna keep within the "redneck quilting" theme, ya just gotta wear a white, stained & ripped wife beater shirt. Beer cans/hound dog at your feet & ciggie dangling from your lip, optional :D

[timbo]

Thanks Sage for the tip on hanging it......sounds like a good way.

And I'll get the motorcycle out of the garage and into the dining room for the winter....gotta couple of things to work on it as well. :cool:

[Seldom Seen]

When I want to wear uncamo,which is most of the time,I just wear earth tones. Nothing I have is garish. Subtlety is the key.

[Hamilton Felix]

That's a good point. Low key, for sure. Wear colors that don't sharply contrast, whether you have human vision or see in black & white like some critters. If I'm in the woods and see some sort of activity, I can settle down a bit behind a bush or tree, to break up my outline. Lower my white face (this is where the black guys have an advantage), so I'm showing more of the top of my head instead (gonna have to start wearing the boonie hat more, because of that receding hairline :D ), and just remain motionless for a while.

Deer don't have fancy camo patterns, but they have a blend-in color scheme, and they usually freeze when they see activity.

I wonder if that sort of "cellular" military night camo -- you know, the stuff that looks like it's painted on as a bunch of big pixels -- will mess with night surveillance cameras...

[Anita]

but my son prefers earth-tone colors in his wardrobe [AND is quite the environmentalist], so I bought him a "hoodie" for his birthday from a site called Mama's Earth. It's 55% hemp and 45% cotton...soft on the inside, rugged on the outside...just like a good man. :beer:

[EdPPCLI]

Camo is always a great topic, everyone has different ideas and it is good to share them. Camo is very specific as to location as well as activities. I urge all of you with a serious gear interest to undertake "stalking" exercises as part of you training regimen. All that is required is a reasonable sized portion of your AO one spotter and one stalker. Parameters can be varied in order to test you camo under real world conditions.
IMHO "hiding in plain site" is probably the most preferd camo option for 90% of all survival scenarios and as such dedicated military camoflage is too obvious. It marks you as being different from the herd and a potential threat. Clothing options should lean towards solid "earth" tones which will do a decent job of blending into the crowd as well as blending into the surrounding terrain in both urban and rural settings. Don't forget liberally applied earth and mud will help to break up your pattern as well.

[Brihard]

Sounds good, Ed, though for the woods, I'm partial to CADPAT myself. I'm really liking the stuff in the summer- not so good during the fall or winter though, for obvious reasons.

I'm surprised more camo doesn't invlude yellowed or light brown tones in it- look at all the dead vegetation you see in any natural setting; I've often found that green and brown military camo stands out quite badly in a lot of vegetated areas because of this. There really isn't any one good camo for everywhere- you need to get a couple different combinations, and use them when appropriate.

[EdPPCLI]

Hey Bri, actually I hate the CADPAT myself for the exact same reasons that you mentioned. All camouflage is limited in the amount of terrain it can possibly blend into. Old style (2yrs+) Canadian combat clothing was a solid olive drab that was at home in desert, boreal forest, or open veldt. It didn't suffer from being to specific. After being in the field a couple of days it picked up enough dirt and grime to appear "cammed up" and personalized to boot. It also didn't suffer from the "too greens" most of the cams suffer from. From a logistics viewpoint wouldn't you prefer to have to only supply one uniform per troopie rather than two or three?
Finally Bri a last question (although its starting to drift) do you wear the CADPAT in the winter? The OD at least could look like deadfall against the snow whereas the cam makes you look like a big fat target (yeah I know you got whites, and wind pants etc. but just say you have no time for a fashion review change).

[Brihard]

Well, although we can wear our CADPAT in the winter, our combat jackets and parkas are al OD Green. The reserves don't get the CADPAT witer gear, the Improved Clothing Ensemble. Instead we get the earlier 'Improved Environmental Clothing System'. Besides, in the winter it's generally more likely that we'll wear the IECS polar fleece tops and bottoms- and those are both OD Green. Typically we'll wear the white pants, and an OD green jacket or parka on top so taht our lower half appears as snow, and the top half as deadfall. Now, granted, anyone deployed on ops would be wearing the ICE, and thus not have the OD green tops. I guess this is one small instance where the reserves may actually get the more effective kit, LOL.

The CADPAT is limited in where it can be used effectively, but I've found tht in the right terrain, it's bloody impossible to see. I certainly see your points about the OD green, though. Truth be told, I don't have enough experience with the old stuff to judge, really...

[Hamilton Felix]

Since we're blending in with UNcamo, not looking like "paramilitary survivalists" or anything non-PC like that, does putting my CAR15 in a Homelite chainsaw case count? :D (Yeah I know chainsaws stand out in some locations, but I live in rural logging country.)

[SageTheRage]

Not only does it count, but it's a great idea. Perhaps when you country folk go into the big city you could carry it in a guitar case so not to draw as much attention :lol:

Speaking of UNcamo blending and "does it count"...how about mumus? They certainly don't lend any type of shaping - just one B_I_G field of colorful flowers :flowerfac ; might work if one has to go undercover in an urban botany exhibit :D and don't snicker, terrorist networks are everywhere ya know!

[EdPPCLI]

HF have you seen the AR furniture in yellow that makes it look like the latest tool offering from DeWalt. Perfect for OPs in the unfinished 'burbs. :)

[Hamilton Felix]

You've gotta be kidding! YELLOW furniture? I recall a joke image that showed a red AR15 in the midst of a Milwaukee Tool display. But it was clearly Photoshopped to look like a Milwaukee AR15. I'll have to keep my eyes open at the W.A.C. show in Puyallup tomorrow.

Sage, maybe your mumu would work. Just crouch, and you are no longer "people shaped." :D

But don't to lobbying for a burqa, no matter now much you think you can conceal underneath. I like to SEE the gals! :yes: