[Libertarian]

I have always used an LBE setup for carrying my equipment. It is how I was taught in the Army (right after they switched from a balket roll and cartridge boxes <laff>). Lately I have been looking at some LBVs offered by various sources. I just can't see paying the added cost when a good pistol belt and "H" suspenders are so comfortable. Plus, do I really want to carry more than a butt pack, four mag pouches, two canteens, a compass, radio, BFK and flashlight on my recon/light field gear? I can carry a lot more in/on my main gear (ALCE) over my LBE than an LBV could carry too.

Does anyone care enough to try and sell me on switching or should I just stick with what I am comfy with?

FWIW I am seriously thinking about adding a camel back to the setup.

[Seldom Seen]

Sounds to me as tho you have a good setup already. I also have a butt pack on my cartridge belt(among other things)for day hikes and such. Don't have much use for a camel back here,as we have so many streams and rivers. I carry one canteen and a Sweet water filter instead. In the big pack I carry an empty Nagalene bottle also.

[SageTheRage]

Being a very slight built woman, I prefer a Tactical LBV. It gives me more bang for the buck as opposed to what can carried in the standard "H" harness LBE you described above of the pistol belt & H suspenders but not the bulk of a full-fleged LBV. That way I don't have to worry about an ALICE pack all the time. Although I do have one, I find it difficult to carry it even with just the "H" Harness LBE but that might just be a case of an adjustment problem. I just suck it up & suffer through it as best I can or leave the ALICE pack at home.

FWIW: I like the camel back hydration system as it leaves for hands-free use along the trail w/o necassirly having to stop or break stride. Being a desert rat, it comes in handy to fill the bladder up halfway, place in freezer overnight and then fill the rest of the way up with cold water from the fridge. Nice cool water for over 24 hrs. at a stretch. I loop the hose through the top most strap of my LBV (on the right side) and I'm good to go!

[Hamilton Felix]

You do have a point, Sage. For some folks, it's hard to get an "H" or "Y" harness and web belt adjusted to be comfortable and carry the load. Twenty five years with a wife who stands near six feet and weighs 300, have taught me that "one size fits all" is a contemptible lie. :mad: Guys who are "average" size are lucky. I've got a surplus vest, with the angled mag pockets and all. But so far, I haven't gotten around to changing from web gear.

I have a CamelBak, issue type from a surplus dealer. Its pockets are enough to carry poncho, MRE, first aid kit, fire starters, etc. And I can wear it along with my web gear. I'd been wanting something with a little more space that could carry above the butt pack (which needs to be kept light). The CamelBack means the canteens can come off the belt, and it's feasible to arrange things so one can flop onto one's belly without great discomfort.

In brushy country like ours, one is always looking to make sure packs and gear do not snag on anything. Yeah, you guessed it: Those oh-so-cool-looking "tactical thigh holsters" are NOT cool. :no:

As the scattered variety of surplus gear builds up in my basement, I'll work toward having a basic web gear setup for each battle rifle. I'm glad surplus gear is cheap. :re:

[SageTheRage]

Surplus gear shopping is the only shopping I actually enjoy! The aroma of web gear draws me like no fine perfume could. Cammo paint is as good as make-up to me. I loved playing "Army" with my little brother growing up and being the oldest, I was always "the leader" Don't get me wrong, I very much enjoy being a girl but on my own terms.

[Libertarian]

Damn Sage but you sure do write pretty! :D

[Hamilton Felix]

I'll second that! :yes: I wonder if she has a sister... ;) I can't get my Little Woman to do any of that stuff -- she's a hell of a good cook, though... :beer:

Just... Wow! Why did I never meet a gal I could keep happy with just musty surplus web gear? :D :happy:



Some vests are cool, with built in pockets for magazines, built in holsters, all sorts of specialized stowage. But I think basic web gear is more versatile. Just swap out the gear you don't want, add the items you do.

[fruit loop]

All of my gear stores in three of those plastic storage bins from Target, the clear kind. They're light and easy to carry, you can see at a glance what's inside, bugs can't get in them, they're waterproof....and, again, I've got everything packed where it breaks down quickly and easily and can be loaded back just as quickly. Fits right into the car trunk too.

[EdPPCLI]

Hey Lib, I'll chime in....
My favourite set up is a basic chest harness and pack combo.
http://www.arktisltd.co.uk/rigs.htm. I have a 1725 and it is very robust (7 yrs old and still going strong). I first heard about this setup when I was in the army and on a couple of recommendations went with Artkis (at the time there weren't too many other chest rig producers). Obviously the RSM wouldn't be too happy if all the troopies started doing the "Pancho Villa" thing but when you were playing OPFOR or overseas the rules relaxed a fair bit. Needless to say the rig got a good workout on two continents and didn't let me down once. My loadout then was different from loadout now, but it will easily hold 6 mags (.308) 2 water bottles, esbit/cup/brew kit (~2000Cal), socks/gloves/toque and a light top. Everything else goes into the pack and depending on the mission requirements you either go with a patrol pack (30L) or a bergen (80+L). I did use an ALICE pack but found that it was designed with a buttpack in mind and consequently much wider than required, a simple climbing pack works better (narrower, easier to pack).
The rig balances the pack nicely making it seem lighter that it is, it easily carries your frontline gear, without allowing for too much overloading. For hot weather it is much better than a vest but maybe not quite as good as LBE. Tactically I found it much quieter than LBE, plus it can be covered by a reasonable sized jacket rendering you less militaristic looking (except for the rifle?). It hold your load much more tightly against your body reducing the chance of gear snags and making vehicle/building exit much smoother.
I wouldn't even bother looking at a vest, I was issued one and it was fine for standing around in but any kinda of serious humping overheated you pretty quickly. It didn't work at all with any of the packs I tried and I found the plethora of pockets caused me to overload the vest and consequently lose track of priority gear, water crossing was a nightmare. I see their use for police/swat type ops where it sits fully packed in the trunk, thrown on/used and back in the trunk after a couple of hours, but for more typical military use I will pass.
There are a number of American makers of rigs (I have heard good reports of Tactical Tailor) but they all seem to be going with (IMHO) way to many pockets and pouches (mostly specialized). This causes the price to rise astronomically, the weight carried to soar, and the amount of fumbling for the right piece of kit to climb. I realize that there are certain military missions where you might need to carry 500 rds magged up but I think the real reason is that the gear whores (yes I am one, but must fight it) spend cash in proportion to the number of zips, pockets and pouches.
If you are happy with what you've got and your confident in its future performance stick with it. If you want to try something different give the 1725 a go you might like it if not sell it off on ebay or trade it at your local, it's a good quality piece of kit that will hold its value.
Ed

[CTCStrela]

Blackhawk patrol bag here, picked a non mil-spec color to offset it.. ;) Works great...

Old H-harness, although I'm rethinking that..

Anything that looks military is going to get "negative attention"...

So having clothing with lots of pockets, and storing the stuff you normally would in an LBV or an LBE rig, in them is probably a better idea..

[sparkky]

I prefer the LBV rigs myself. I'm kind of like Sage being slight of build. I've got both set ups but find the LBV more comfortable to wear/carry. It seems with the LBE I don't have enough belt room for pouches, canteens, etc. For some reason I seem to be able to get more on the Vest. Maybe because with the chest mag pouches I gain some belt space.
I have a couple of the newer GI "molle" type vests but haven't really played with them much yet.
I like the versatility aspect of them, being able to quickly change mag pouches from AR to AK to FAL while leaving everything else the same. Seems like it will eliminate the need for duplicate rigs for us "multi caliber" types.

[Hamilton Felix]

That's a point. There are some really flexible vests out there these days. Of course, the good ones usually cost a bit, where earlier generation LBE and ALICE gear is pretty cheap. I hear you about swapping. I went to play with friends a little while ago, and they had just discovered the .308 (apparently) and gotten FAL's. So I took along my M1A. I found myself grabbing gear at the last minute, trying to see how many M1A mags would fit into which AR mag pouches, and other such silliness. ;)

If one knew for sure what was wanted (and would be wanted in the future; tune up the crystal ball) one could order from Tactical Tailor, or a good local guy I know, Semper Paratus Tactical -- and have it purpose-built.

Something I'm always thinking about in brushy country, is staying "slick" and not getting caught on things. If one was SURE what would be carried (no need to make changes), it might be possible to make a custom LBV that had flapped access to the pockets on the outside, but actually dropped the pockets inside the shell of the vest. Given a "blend in" color scheme, but non-military appearance, such a design would tend to hide what was actually being carried, in line with what CTCStrela just said. This would be good for "grab & go" gear in one's vehicle. Military web gear laying in the back of a 4x4, looks like what it is.

Along that line, I've been thinking of carefully loading my big Cabela's winter parka, making it into a minimal survival kit. It's a big green GoreTex and Thinsulate garment with lots of pockets, including a concealed "map pocket" that works for concealed pistols.

But watch out. I got a cheap deal once on a goofy coat that Columbia (if I remember correctly) sold, with a small detachable pack on it. Coats and vests are not designed to be packs; they put weight in the wrong places.

You know, I realized a while back that one could make a full time hobby of collecting web gear and load bearing equipment. There has been a need, and something has been used by every army since legions first began marching around. Just the variations I see in Sportsman's Guide and a few other surplus catalogs are pretty amazing.

[sparkky]

HF,,,,,,,,,,
ya, the gear thing is kind of an obsession no doubt. I have several set ups for me and one for the wife, and a "few" spares. Mine is set up for AR while I have the wifes set up for AK in .223. I could change over to match hers pretty quick. Being a small guy, I have a Colt SP1 carbine that is lite as a feather and I could carry it a long time. It's even reliable for a AR. LOL
I really like the FALs but the weight of the weapon and ammo reduces my load but they are a FINE weapon.
AKs,,,,,well what else can be said about them. They will function in conditions I cannot function in!! LOL

[EdPPCLI]

Hey sparky nice choice for a weapon, not only a classic but exactly what Stoner intended. An SP1 is on my to get list they do pop up now and then up here (my other option would be the Armalite AR180B, a close second in my opinion).

HF nice idea about the winter coat as LBD (device). This same idea has been a part of Canadian winter warfare doctrine for at least the last 30yrs. Troopies will not wear LBE in extreme cold weather (obviously due to bulkiness and decrease in insulation) rather the Canadian issue parka is made with large bellows pockets that have inner mag pouches sewn into them to keep the mags from jiggling around. These pockets combined with the large thigh pockets on the issue "wind pants" provides a decent amount of storage space. Incidentally the gas mask carrier is a seperate entity and can be worn alone rather than having to be mounted on LBE. The only serious issue for this type of setup is hydration since exposed water bottles will quickly freeze, troopies either went with a camelback under the parka or a 2L slung under one armpit again under the parka.
Ed

[Shadowfane]

If you like your wallets as is, do NOT do a search for :

Lightfighter Gear.

[Brihard]

So far all I have experience is standard military webbing, Canadian 1982 pattern. I'm a small build, and hate the stuff. Don't get me wrong, it does that job, but I find it flops around too much. The butt pack especially tends to bounce, and just hang down in general due to the palcement of the abck straps.

I'me agerly awaiting my issue of our military's new LBV, the TacVest as we're calling it. cargo capacity is limited, but it's made to be used with a daypack of some kind, or a camelback analog with a number of equipment pouches mounted on it.

The vest itself is rpetty nice. Faiyl snug fitting, and all the pouches are held on rpetty solidly, so gear won't flop around. No more canteen banging you on the hip when you run! I've tried it on once or twice, adn it's comfortable.

The chest has pouches for 4 M16 style mags. Not much, I know, but the Canadian forces only issue 5 mags per soldier for some idiotic reason. Obviously, anyone on a real mission gets their hands on five or six more. There are pouches designed for smoke grenades and M67 frag grenades- four total, I think, and a couple general utility pouches. The last, main pouches- one on each hip- can be swapped from 1L canteen pouches, 2 quart canteen pouches, and I beleive the latter also serves to hold 200rd 5.56 drums. I've also heard of, though not seen, vests designed for M203 gunners with high capacit for 40mm rounds. Another neat feature is the flaps built into the inner part of it- part of the 'lining', as it were, is held in as a velcro flap, and is designed to hold folded maps- or, just as easily, any other paper or thin pieces of kit. There's also a scabbard for the bayonet on the breastbone, running down the center. It can be flipped so the blade is pointing upwards, or downwards. MY stepmom, currently in Afghansitan, ahs told me that they often customize the scabbards to act as pistol holsters.

It's a pretty versatile setup, really. Lacking in cargo capacity, but some good innovations. The entire thing is made in our new CADPAT digital camo, with much of it being a strong mesh for ventilation. Good kit.

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/Chief_Land_Staff/Clothe_the_soldier/hab/2/2711_e.asp#

[Shadowfane]

linkish (http://www.lightfighter.com/)