[Aleph Null]

http://www.thereporter.com/Stories/0%2C1413%2C295~30197~2655658%2C00.html

Interpretations of creation story vary

By Karen Nolan/Staff Writer

Was the world created exactly as it says in the book of Genesis, or is the theory of evolution a more accurate account? Not every faith that includes Genesis among its Scriptures feels compelled to debate the matter.

For the vast majority of Jews, any discrepancy between science and faith was pretty much settled 1,100 years ago, said Rabbi Steve Vale of Congregation Ha-Makom (The Jewish Community of Solano County).

Saadia Gaon, a Babylonian rabbi who helped codify Rabbinic Judaism, resolved the conflict, Vale said.

"Saaida Gaon said that if there is scientific evidence of something and it contradicts what Torah (Scripture) says, the Torah can't be wrong and science can't be wrong. I'm wrong. I'm interpreting it wrong," the rabbi explained.

Genesis, for instance, says the world was created in seven days. "There's no compelling reason for us to say a day is 24 hours," Vale said. "There's no reason to say God could not create the world through evolution."

Nor do Jews necessarily hold that Genesis is the start of the story. "'In the beginning' really means, 'when God was beginning the world,' " Vale said. "The Bible starts the story with the beginning of life and human beings, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it was the beginning of God or his creation."

It is impossible to know whether the world evolved or was created as Genesis describes it, Vale said, but that's not the point of Scripture.

"For Jews, the Bible is a book about why we are here and how we're supposed to act, not how we're created. People are welcome to read that into it, but it's not for us," Vale said. "I'm more interested in how I'm supposed to act, how I'm supposed to treat people on the streeet, how am I supposed to connect to God through the acts in my life."

A similar philosophy guides Roman Catholic teaching.

"We say that the lessons of the Bible are lessons about God's relationship with the human race and our relationship with God - that all the stories are calculated, if you will, to elucidate something of the relationship between God and the universe and his people," said the Rev. Vincent O'Reilly of St. Joseph's Catholic Church in Vacaville. "So the Bible tells us who made the world and what the responsibility of creation is to the one who created it, but we rely on science to teach us how the world developed."

In the Catholic church, science and faith collided in the 17th century, when astronomers Johannes Kepler and Galileo upended the church's teaching that the Earth was the center of the universe. In the intervening 400 years, Catholic theologians and scientists have come to a truce.

"All truth has to come from God," O'Reilly explained. "If science is telling us some truth about the development or evolution of the universe, then that's the truth as we know it today. Five hundred years from now, some scientist may come up with a slightly different version. But that won't change our position that a creator designed the universe and we're striving to understand how."

Besides, he added, how God created the world isn't the point of the creation story. "The story is ultimately that human beings are the highpoint of God's creation. And God has charged humans with responsibility for the rest of creation."

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints also doesn't spend a lot of time debating the fine points of evolution or creationism. Its official teaching lies between the two points.

"We believe that God created the world, but not necessarily in seven days," said Dayton Call, a spokeman for the church in Solano County. "When it comes to evolution, we don't believe human beings evolved. We believe we were descended from Adam and Eve. But that's as far as the church's position goes on the subject. If there's evolution involved as far as the creative process, we would not argue that there's not."

Orthodox Christians also steer clear of the creation vs. evolution debate, said the Rev. Silas Ruark of St. Timothy Orthodox Church (Antiochan) in Cordelia.

"Orthodoxy basically accepts the fact that there is very much we don't know about the beginning and the end," Ruark said. "We know that in the beginning God created. And we know that in the end he will bring it to a close. But to venture into a great deal of speculation about the how or even the when is for us to assume that we can understand the mind of God."

Most Orthodox Christians accept the Genesis account as being a "true revelation of God's creation and God's interaction with humankind," Ruark said. Orthodox Christianity also teaches that the world has "gone haywire" through the disobedience of humankind.

"But the exact hows of the creation, the hows of his incarnation and the hows of his second coming are known only to God," Ruark said.

[Chills]

Saaida Gaon said that if there is scientific evidence of something and it contradicts what Torah (Scripture) says, the Torah can't be wrong and science can't be wrong. I'm wrong. I'm interpreting it wrong," the rabbi explained.


I think that is a very interesting way of approaching the problem.
I have never heard it put quite that way.

Thanx for the article Aleph.

[nanna]

http://www.gatewaystobabylon.com/gods/ladies/ladytiamat.html

Before the world as we know it was created, said the Babylonians, there was only Tiamat, the dragon goddess of salt waters and Her consort Apsu, god of the fresh sweet water. Both represent the idea of chaos that precedes form and order, which are the foundation of upon which civilization rests. Tiamat and Apsu are the parents of all the Great Gods and Goddesses of Babylon, who came forth from Tiamat´s almighty womb. No pictures are known of Her, but She is normally said to be a fierce Dragoness in form, or the personification of the Untame, Primeval Forces of the Universe before established order. We also know that as Her young offspring of gods and goddesses grew up, they became so noisy to the extent that Father Apsu could find rest at night.

Apsu came to Tiamat to complain about the clamor of the young gods, but first Tiamat paid no attention to Apsu´s concerns. Rivkah Harris, in her excellent study of Gendered Old in the Enuma Elish (Chapter 5 of her book Gender and Aging in Mesopotamia: The Gilgamesh Epic and Other Ancient Literature, University of Oklahoma Press, Norma, 1999) says with deep insight that we first meet Tiamat in the Epic of Creation as a young woman of childbearing years. At this time,She is tolerant and giving, and totally opposed to the decimation of her young. Thus, the younger Tiamat resigns herself to her spouse´s death for the sake of the children. Harris also stresses the point that Tiamat´s image is very positive, because her epithet is elletu, or pure.

But Apsu is not appeased and unhappier still about the clamor of the younger generation, together with Mummu, his vizier, father Apsu plots then that both should kill the younger gods to stop the noise once and for all. Tiamat rejects categorically the plan. But the younger gods, fearing that they could indeed be slain by their parents, decided to withstand their ground. After some thought, Enki, the God of Magick, Sweet Waters of the Deep and patron of all arts and crafts, cast a sleep spell upon Apsu and Mummu, and then kills both.

Filled probably with sorrow and guilt, Enki withdraws to the marshes of Eridu, and there builds his temple, the E-abzu or E-engurra. It is interesting that one of the names of Enki´s temple is exactly the name of the father the God of Magick had to slain to allow for his brothers and sisters to go on living. Somehow the temple, or the ground and foundation for Enki´s worship, is built upon the essence/legacy of his father. Enki takes refuge in his sacred realm, with his beloved wife Damkina. There, they conceive and give birth to Marduk, their son, a child of wonder, perfect in form and strength, blessed by all gods and goddesses of the land.

When we meet Tiamat again, says Harris, She is older, more assertive and independent, therefore deeply shaken by Apsu´s death, now the Caring Mother turns to be the Avenging Spouse. Thus she accepts to fight against her own offspring. As Mother Hubur, the underworld river, who fashions all things, She bore giant snakes with venom for blood, and cloaked dragons with a godlike radiance yet with a terrible visage, for the war. She rallied a horned serpent, a mushussu-dragon, a lahmu-hero, a ugallu-demon, a rabid dog, a scorpion-man, umu-demons, a fish-man, a bull-man, and eleven others underneath her champion, Qingu. She gave Qingu the Tablet of Destinies to facilitate his command and attack.

Tiamat is therefor a much more formidable opponent than Apsu, and asserts Her authority in such a fashion that it is mandatory that She should be eliminated. Thus the younger gods need desperately a champion, and there came young Marduk, a hero on the make, still untried, who is chosen as the champion of the gods. Marduk then ventured to try and conquer the greatest of all powers to date, the Ancestress who had given birth to the world that was, but that should accept change and become something else... perhaps more.

Qingu's strategy initially confuses Marduk, and Tiamat tried to enspell him, hurling jibes at him. Finally, Tiamat was incited into single combat with Marduk. She continued to cast her spell, but Marduk nets her, throwing winds at the fierce Dragoness. She tried to swallow the winds, but Marduk cut into her heart, crushing afterwards her skull to death. Then there was the enormous effort of picking up the remains of the Great Dragoness, the worthiest opponent ever to a young hero and thus create the new order for all worlds. The parts of Tiamat´s body created the universe as we know it, and the divine fashioner was Marduk. For example, Tiamat´s body fell into the lower universe; one half became the dome of heaven, her eyes became the sources of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.

Tiamat´s and Marduk´s Mystery was celebrated every year in Babylon especially during the New Year´s or the Akitu Festival, where Life was seen as the taming of primeval Chaos, a task that indeed never ends. The Mystery of the Fierce Dragoness and Her Valiant Opponent bring also to light the victory of the hero-centered consciousness represented by Marduk in opposition to the cyclical view of the world centered on communal values, where the collective took precedence over individualism. Marduk is the first heroic dragon-slayer in world history. Remember though that His glory was built upon the remains of Tiamat, to become the glory that was Babylon.



nanna

[Flint]

"Saaida Gaon said that if there is scientific evidence of something and it contradicts what Torah (Scripture) says, the Torah can't be wrong and science can't be wrong. I'm wrong. I'm interpreting it wrong," the rabbi explained.

Genesis, for instance, says the world was created in seven days. "There's no compelling reason for us to say a day is 24 hours," Vale said. "There's no reason to say God could not create the world through evolution."

Nor do Jews necessarily hold that Genesis is the start of the story. "'In the beginning' really means, 'when God was beginning the world,' " Vale said. "The Bible starts the story with the beginning of life and human beings, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it was the beginning of God or his creation."

Fascinating approach. So 'created' doesn't mean created, 'seven' doesn't really mean seven, 'days' doesn't really refer to days, 'beginning' wasn't necessarily the beginning. So what DO the words of the Torah mean? To answer this question, first we study the reality as hard as we can. We sift through all the evidence, form hyptheses, test them, reject the tests that fail, learn more in the process, and iterate until our understanding of the Real World (tm) is pretty damn solid. THEN we return to the scripture and "reinterpret" the words to mean what we have independently discovered, even if this means we must take the individual instances of the most important of the words and 'interpret' their opposites!

How very quintessentially Jewish! When I grew up, my neighbors were Jewish and not permitted to handle money on Saturday. You might think this would prevent them from transacting business, but no! Before sundown Friday, they counted out many common amounts of change they might have to make, and wrapped each amount up in a piece of paper. Then on Saturday, they only 'handled' the paper, and not money! Is it any wonder so many Jews regard the Torah as functionally irrelevant?