[epman]

See info below:

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Bird Flu - Are we ready?

Published: 10 Oct 2005
By: Channel 4 News

How you can get involved in a Channel 4 News Special.

On Wednesday October 12, Channel 4 News will be devoting a large part of the programme to bird flu, examining the extent of the risk faced by the UK, and finding out just how well prepared we are for it spreading to humans.

Health experts reckon that's inevitable, and believe millions of people worldwide could die.

Not everyone's convinced, and you can be sure there'll be some pretty lively argument in the studio.

We want you to take part as well, so please e-mail us from tonight with the questions YOU want answered about bird flu. We'll do our best to answer them on Channel 4 News.

Email the team at news@channel4.com

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For those unable to receive this I will try and transcribe it ASAP after the event. :ukflag:

[ukcz]

Mod: merge this with the previous thread here please ;-)
http://www.curevents.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24413

[prodrome]

Thanks for the heads up, epman! I would have otherwise missed this programme. I will watch it and shout at the TV.

[Lisa the GP]

Wow. I wish that some of the news shows here would do that. Or that I'd find out about it before the window of opportunity was closed :D

[prodrome]

Well, although it's a great opportunity, I cannot think what to ask. I am quite sure the treatment will be frustratingly elementary, because I've been following the subject for a while.

I am sure that other people round the country will ask the questions I can't though. "Why no vax?", an honest and understandable answer there. "Why no antivirals for us?"...trickier, but culpability can be passed on to Pharma. "Will I be quarantineed?" Political squirming, sweat begins. "Why are we being told this now?" etc.

And it says on the website "Not everyone's convinced, and you can be sure there'll be some pretty lively argument in the studio." This is a bit annyoing. OK, there may be a debate. We may all be wrong. But the media love doing this. A story with one side, told with two. Same with Global Warming. Get a scientist backed up by many many others and pit him against a naysayer, perhaps also a scientist or an environmentalist or economist or politician. And you get a false debate, IMO.

I hope the Truth will emerge from it, and that after watching it, people quietly say to each other "I say! How alarming! Let us postehaste and forthwith prepare our humble abode for imminent times of strife, trial and hardship" or something like that. Instead of turning over to watch football or something.

[Deb Mc]

How are the food supplies there over in the U.K.? Do you all have any sort of bulk food distribution system set-up (ala "Costco" or "Sam's Club" here in the U.S.) or is it mainly what we call "Mom-and-Pop shops"?

How large of a prep run can your system handle over there right now?

[prodrome]

Hi Deb!

I think we have exactly the same Just in Time mechanisms here as there. As everywhere really.

I was looking at the CIA factbook today to see what that would tell me about how robust the nation is at standing alone or feeding itself. 1% of the population are farmers or food producers, making food for 60million people. Anyhow.

Sam's Club, Costco...from what I have seen or know (not much) I do not think there are big chains of stores like that here. The nearest nationwide chains are either supermarkets, like Safeway or a little nearer the bulk end, there are cash and carry wholesalers mainly for businesses.

I do not think we have Walmart-esque stores either? People say they buy cooking stoves, barbeques, indoor stoves, big cans and sacks of this and that, there. I think those were from Walmart. And at a UK supermarket, a typical one...those things are not around. It's food, household stuff, (and electrical stuff if it's a big shop) and booze.

I think the UK ahs very much lost the "Let's stock up" idea. Natural disasters are superare here. We are the size of Oregon. The worst we get is a bit of snow, coldness and floods. Maybe the odd freak tornado running through a suburban neighbourhood once every few years. So the imperative and the idea are not really inbuilt anymore. We've gone soft. :D

In other panics, like fuel panics, bread goes quickly always here. Fuel too. I suppose it really is the same everywhere now.

[Deb Mc]

Hey there Prodrome! (Waving)

Ah, yikes! Good thing that most of the bad weather doesn't hit y'all over there - could be a good thing, really.

Wal-Mart's carries just about everything, that's for sure. Any chance the U.K. might create a distribution center for said items to be sold/given to the public for preparedness?

I wonder if the U.S. could do a "goodwill" donation of prep goods over to you all, to help out for the "City" prepping. Could help to keep things stabilized, especially the foreign element, until this virus burns itself out.

Preps are cheap, especially compared to rebuilding infrastructure.

God Bless and stay safe over there...

[prodrome]

Epman, i sent em a question and the gave me a form letter reply, they say there's going to be stuff posted on their website afterwards, if that helps.

At the end of the email btw, they said I could keep up to date by going to their website and then gave a link to their Indian Ocean Tsunami page. For some reason.

[prodrome]

My mother = the ULTIMATE DGI.

I had to stand over her shoulder and keep her watching it. In the end I gave up. She is now watching some Home show on the other channel. The panel discussion is still going on.

I told her about shops not having food. She said we'll go when it comes. I told her there won't be any. But in the end I just gave up. She kept changing channels in part because she told me "no one was interested in it" to which I said the entire world was. And in part also because she was expecting dead birds and she didn't want to see that.

She says "if there's nothing we can do, there's nothing we can do." That "if I [she] die, I die".

I asked if she understood the magnitude of it, and she said she did. Which is just baffling. I don't think she has. Else she'd be in let's buy food mode.

I have 2 weeks food and she has about 2 days.

I really think I am totally on my own with this.

Anyway, I just had to vent.

[prodrome]

2 days, by which I mean, like normal groceries. Not 2 days of stocked up or prepped.

[purplelinny]

Hi prodrome!

Brit ex-pat here, now in Texas. I lived in Gloucester up until 2 1/2 yrs ago. We had several superstores --> Asda (which is WalMart/Sam's), Tesco, Sainsbury's, Costco, all within a 50 mile radius, which were all great for buying in bulk. I guess it's not the same all over the UK?!

And then there's B&Q and the other large DIY stores for getting masks...

Yesterday I wrote to all my friends and relatives over there advising them to get some masks, bleach and hand san (just for starters) on their next trip out the door - I also pointed them at this forum. To emphasize the importance to them of getting supplies prior to the panic buying, I reminded them how I had gone to the store to buy water... 5 days before hurricane Rita... and the shelves were empty, as were many shelves with basic food items.

Fortunately, I was just trying to top up as I have been well stocked for over a year now... something about living in the Gulf Coast ;) I hope that sharing this experience with my friends and family will make them take this more seriously.

Sorry to derail from the C4 prog subject... I miss C4 :(

[ukcz]

Back on topic, you can watch the Channel 4 News special and the new channel More4's follow up on their website (all require Windows Media Player).

Film report (Recommended):
http://edge.channel4.com/news/2005/10/week_2/12_rush.wmv
Experts panel:
http://edge.channel4.com/news/2005/10/week_2/12_disco.wmv
Channel 4 Q&A:
http://edge.channel4.com/news/2005/10/week_2/12_question.wmv
More 4 Q&A:
http://edge.channel4.com/news/2005/10/week_2/12_answer.wmv

[ukcz]

And this about blogs etc on their site too:

A Virus Goes Viral
J.J. King tracks the blogosphere's response to the threat of a global Avian Flu pandemic.


Unto Us, A Virus Is Born
Following Katrina's ample demonstration of the chaos a natural disaster can cause, the world has begun to worry about the consequences of an Avian Flu pandemic. According to Hitwise, searches for 'avian flu' are up 301% this month while searches for 'bird flu' are up 229% -- three and a half times less than Britney, but still up there.

It is now known that the 'Spanish Flu' pandemic of 1918, which killed between 25 million and 50 million people, was caused by H1N1, another virus which started by killing off birds and then adapted itself for easy human transmission. The worry is that the new H5N1, a far deadlier form of the Avian Flu virus that has already killed many animals and a few humans, will now do the same.

The H5N1 blog reports a recent conference at Deutsche Bank, wryly titled 'Bulls, Bears And Birds, Preparing The Financial Community For A Pandemic', at which at least one scientist claimed the probability that the H5 virus would acquire the human-trasnmissable characteristic was '100 percent.' Since H5N1 is widespread in the bird population and geographically, there are millions of opportunities for the virus to recombine. Any one of these recombinations could spread the flu amongst people.

Bird Flu Fears Rising:
weblogs.hitwise.com (http://weblogs.hitwise.com/heather-hopkins/2005/10/bird_flu_fears_rising.html)
Wikipedia on Spanish flu:
en.wikipedia.org (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Flu)
Eerie" Discoveries about Flu':
www.businessweek.com (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/oct2005/tc2005106_4568_tc057.htm)
Notes From Bulls, Bears And Birds:
crofsblogs.typepad.com/h5n1 (http://crofsblogs.typepad.com/h5n1)



From Flu To Depression
Even if a pandemic were mild, experts estimate about a third of the world's population would fall sick over a period of months. Millions would die -- possibly many millions.

At least one major national brokerage firm has suggested a flu pandemic could trigger a crisis 'similar to that of the Great Depression.' BMO Financial Group, according to CBC news, reported that 'real estate values would be slashed, bankruptcies would soar and the insurance industry would be decimated... This would trigger foreclosures and bankruptcies, credit restrictions and financial panic.' Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, called this an 'Oh my God' moment' for the financial industry.

Flu pandemic could trigger second Great Depression, brokerage warns clients: www.cbc.ca (http://www.cbc.ca)


Blogging The Outbreak
Let's hope Avian Flu doesn't take to bloggers as enthusiastically as they have to it. The combination of possible global disaster and complete lack of preparedness is proving tantalising.

The popular America Blog points out that the US Administration's approach to Avian Flu is disturbingly similar to its policy on terror: 'fight it "over there" and prevent the deadly flu from hitting US soil... somehow stop[ping] the movement of migratory birds.' 'Are we going to see big safety nets up in the sky blocking birds?' asks America Blog's Chris. 'Are we going to somehow be able to stop all people moving around? Are we going to check every shipment of food coming in to the country? I think we can all guess the actual readiness of this administration.'

The Manufacturers' Blog, meanwhile, complains that a 'trigger-happy litigation culture' in the US means manufacturers either aren't manufacturing needed drugs or are not supplying the US market out of fear of lawsuits. 'If a vaccine causes side effects in healthy people,' said a White House spokesman, 'vaccine manufacturers could face massive lawsuits.'

Future Pundit suggests the best way to avoid economic collapse during Bird Flu pandemic would be to lock workers in their workplaces wherever possible. This may help slow the spread of the pandemic, but it will also contribute the rise in global fascism.

But all may not be lost: at least one poster to Future Pundit thinks such extreme measures are unneccessary, since the Bird Flu is mere baloney: 'the scientists want more money so they overplay the risk. Newspapers wish to sell more copies so they make a non-story into a major story.' And then of course, there's those hit-hunting bloggers...

Bird flu hits Turkey - Bush still has no serious plan:
americablog.blogspot.com (http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/10/bird-flu-hits-turkey-bush-still-has-no.html)
Manufacturer's Blog on Flu:
blog.nam.org (http://blog.nam.org/archives/2005/10/avian_flu_cherc.php)
Economic Collapse Avoidable During An Influenza Pandemic:
www.futurepundit.com (http://www.futurepundit.com)
Avian Flu - What we need to know:
avianflu.typepad.com (http://avianflu.typepad.com)
Flu Wiki:
http://www.fluwikie.com/

Source: http://www.channel4.com/news/blogs/10_11_blog.html

[prodrome]

Thanks ukcz! I hope epman will do a transcript?

Purplelinny, Did you have costco where you were in the UK????????? Notice how many question marks I have there...hinting at my astonishment! I must check this out, if true!


No derailing, Lynda...welcome on board!

[ukcz]

There'll be no transcript, you'll have to watch the video. The combined shows went on for ages (1/2hr ?) anyway.

I didn't have a Costco near me, but I lived in a posh part of town. :D
Costco certainly have a UK presence (http://www.costco.co.uk), but it's not big.

[prodrome]

ukcz, I have just found that same website. I was quite suprised. I can no retract my moaning about no costco. It is still too far to go for me, but for others it is good to know. Perhaps they will have the army outisde when a pandemic hits. :)

The pictures on their website are honestly astonishing to me. I have never seen something like it.

Thanks purplelinny, for proving me wrong.

[zhanae]

prodrome, like purplelinney I was going to suggest B&Q or Tescos. I've been to the Costco's in Edinburgh, but not any of the others they have listed on the site.

[prodrome]

Hello zhanae!

My preps are from Tesco's and Sainsbury's. I am following the basics of the ukcz Prep Plan. :D

I have masks from a while back, but I think I may not have bought some very good ones. I do that sometimes, make mistakes like that...but I will use them anyway. There is a DoitAll/Focus nearby that I checked, and Homebase. Homebase was not so good, as may be expected. I was intending to check out Lidl. They seem to be a little like Walmart but I have not tried their food or been in one ever.

[zhanae]

Oh, I forgot about Homebase and Lidls. I would compare Lidls to wal-mart or target. very similar, from what i remember.

[ukcz]

Hello zhanae!

My preps are from Tesco's and Sainsbury's. I am following the basics of the ukcz Prep Plan. :D I'm working on a family pandemic preparedness plan, which will be a bit more detailed. Just not enough hours in the day.

[epman]

I was a bit disappointed with the programme, but will do a transcript for information purposes.

Re the food supplies - all of the big chains have been meeting to look at the effect that a pandemic will have on the supply chain and how they can work together to tackle the problem. I haven't heard any outcomes as yet but will keep my ear to the ground.

[prodrome]

epman, I didn't know that there had been a meeting. This is very interesting news. I hope you hear more.

[purplelinny]

<snip>Thanks purplelinny, for proving me wrong.
heh - well, if you put it like that, neener, neener - lol :P

I never actually used a Costco, but my dad and bro would take trips to the one in Bristol (iirc), taking it in turns to buy truckloads of stuff to dish around the family.

When I was living in England, I always kept at least a good supply of water. When I left the shores for Texas and had to get rid of most things, my friends thought I was cuckoo when I was passing out crates of water!

Thanks for the welcome, btw :)

TIA, epman, for doing the transcript.