[Storm]

Luke 21:25 - "And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and upon the earth distress of nations in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves,


Just possibly to the point .... or not.


Peace
Storm

[Plaid-Man Individual]

Whatever the interpretation or relevancy to the recent natural disaster (there have been many similar natural disasters throughout history), this thread is not news or news related and is probably more suited for the Chapel.

The Great Hall (2 Viewing)
Here we discuss current events and happenings from around the world. If it isn't related to news, it doesn't belong here!

Edited: just noticed it was moved to the Chapel. :bigtup:

[Aleph Null]

Yes I moved the thread.

Storm, don't be offended by this. All of the "main floor" rooms are open to the public and get considerable use. Your thread will get more attention here since it won't be buried in news threads.

a0

[Flint]

I can see the distress about the waves, but what were the signs? Surely someone would have noticed them.

[fruit loop]

....I saw that same crap quoted by Pat Robuttson and Jerry Fartwell after the Loma Prieta quake in the 1990s. Back then it was retribution for San Francisco's tolerance of gays. They quoted that very verse.

I'm sure somebody quoted it after the great quake in 1903, too.....and the bubonic plague in the Middle Ages......

Yeesh. I wondered how long it would take. I should have held my breath and I'd have been safe.

[Storm]

Fair enough. I am serious about my question read the various news tickers and you will see that Waves, rough seas and fear of what just came about is the talk of just about every major nation with a coastline . Don't forget this is being called the biggest earthquake in the modern era. Nothing to scoff at imo. To each his own.

Peace
Storm

[Storm]

BTW I do resent being compared to Jerry farwell and Pat Robertson for posting one verse of scripture. :eek: :eek:

[Pepper]

Fair enough. I am serious about my question read the various news tickers and you will see that Waves, rough seas and fear of what just came about is the talk of just about every major nation with a coastline . Don't forget this is being called the biggest earthquake in the modern era. Nothing to scoff at imo. To each his own.

Peace
Storm

I'm seeing what your seeing. Your right this is nothing to scoff at. But, scoff they will.

Pepper

[Storm]

Hey thanks Pepper, I was just about to go have a snotty cry in the corner . LMAO.

Peace
Storm

[Flint]

The sad thing is that if there HAD been some kind of warning system in place, tens of thousands of people wouldn't have died. As with many natural disasters, the issue isn't that there were signs, but rather that there were not. Knowing what was probably coming hours in advance, the authorities in these countries had no way to tell people. Maybe this time they'll do something about it?

[SmartAZ]

Maybe this time they'll do something about it?
It happened once a hundred years ago, and might happen again in the next hundred years. How much do you think they ought to spend to do something about it? Maybe it would be more cost effective for you to leave a letter to your grandchildren advising them to avoid vacationing in SE Asia.

[Flint]

SmartAZ:

But the United States has redundant warning systems - loudspeakers, radios, sirens, planes dragging messages and dropping leaflets, all of which could have been deployed in time. We use these systems to warn against (for example) tornados and brush fires. We think it's worth it. Are we dumb?

[Libertarian]

I think that there was a sign. it said "No swimming!" It was washed away.

[SmartAZ]

We use these systems to warn against (for example) tornados and brush fires. We think it's worth it. Are we dumb?
No, we have a history of calamities. They had no such history in Indonesia. That was part of their decision to give no warning.

[Flint]

Is this true? Yet I recall news stories in the past of natural disasters (remember Bangladesh?) throughout that part of the world. They have typhoons, fires, and floods pretty regularly. This is not a history of calamity?

I think instead, you are seeing a history of indifference -- both of their governments toward their populations, and of the US media toward the problems of Indonesians generally.

[SmartAZ]

I was referring to this news item. (http://www.curevents.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2145) The main argument against such a warning was that there have not been any floods in 300 years. Also, the experts believed the Indonesian island Sumatra would be a "cushion" for the southern coast of Thailand. The experts also had bad information; they thought the tremor was 8.1. A similar earthquake occurred in the same area in 2002 with no flooding at all.

<snip>
We finally decided not to do anything because the tourist season was in full swing. The hotels were 100% booked full. What if we issued a warning, which would have led to an evacuation, and nothing had happened. What would be the outcome? The tourist industry would be immediately hurt. Our department would not be able to endure a lawsuit...<snip>

[fuzzychick]

GOD is speaking volumes........I agree Pepper, people must listen.........

[SmartAZ]

Luke 21:
5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Notes:
- I believe we are at #9. "By and by" means right away.
- "You" in verse 12 means jews, not christians.
- We have a ways to go before #25 applies.

[nanna]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/977506.cms

(under fair use ...)


Gods give and gods take away


SAMIRAN CHAKRAWERTTI

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ FRIDAY, DECEMBER 31, 2004 10:40:01 PM ]


It's hard to come to terms with the fury of nature. A lot of historians believe that the gods were invented by early man as a release for his inability to explain nature’s vagaries and things they could not understand.

Take the Greek gods—Poseidon was the god of the sea, Dawn, the goddess, who arose from her bed everyday to throw light on the world, Hades was the god of the underworld where people went when they died, the god Eros shot people with his golden arrows to make them fall in love, and so on and so forth.

But the truth is that man likes to believe he is the master of his own destiny, complete as he is, and powerful as he feels, with the ability to move mountains, which is why he has no answer to his helplessness in the face of the fury of nature.

Earthquakes, cyclones, tsunami, landslides, floods, disease — all point to the overwhelming superiority of the power nature has, and man can at best be a helpless bystander. Nature has its own undecipherable way of maintaining a balance too.

Even as life is lost somewhere, there is new life springing up elsewhere. In India, there are about 45,000 babies born every day, while 23,000 people pass away. That’s 22,000 new lives everyday. At that rate, every year, the population of Australia is added to the existing population of India.

Everyday, in the world, there are almost 2,00,000 lives more than there were the previous day. As the scriptures say—the gods give, and the gods take away and it isn’t possible for mere mortals to understand the thinking of the gods.

There's no better explanation for a lot of things that happen all around us. In Sunday's disaster, at least 120,000 died.

The very same day, almost double that number of lives was added to the world.

A philosophical understanding of the paradox could perhaps give people the necessary fortitude to come to grips with the tsunami tragedy. For try as you might, it is impossible to find a reason behind the way nature's devices work.





nanna

[lars]

Symphonies of love and life
continue as a pervert's knife
carves apart an innocent child.
Good and Evil reconciled?

I wrote those rough lines 22 years ago. Horror and beauty, loss and victory have co-existed forever. At this very moment, there are millions dying, many in agony. And there are millions more making love, giving birth, creating art, getting married, laughing and doing/celebrating the mundane stuff of living.

I think your article is all the truth that we can know for now, nanna. Trite as it sounds, life goes on. IMO, our job is to live that life, honor that life, recreate that life, nourish that life.

Understand it? Naaah.